https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L68700/2024-11-17/detailed#allox_id=0 Hopefully this does run it’s a very rare opportunity. 720s have never once been to north of Ipswich in passenger service.
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Is the 1100 Liverpool St - Norwich going to be operated by a pair of Class 720s today (17/11)?
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The inbound working is from Stansted Airport - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L67895/2024-11-17/detailed#allox_id=0. It will presumably get swapped.
jammmmmsssssss
Member
I don't think that'll happen. 720s have been to Stowmarket in passenger service recently to clear platforms for extra trains for some sports game at Ipswich
Why are the 720 still not cleared to Norwich in passenger service? It seems odd as i think it is the only electrified part to of the GA network that they are not able to go?
There always used to be a booked 321 working to Norwich and back every day which ran for years. I remember being told by a GA staff member i know that the initial plan was for this to continue with the 720 units. But that never seems to have happened. It would seem sensible if the 720 could go to Norwich as it would add more flexibility.
There always used to be a booked 321 working to Norwich and back every day which ran for years. I remember being told by a GA staff member i know that the initial plan was for this to continue with the 720 units. But that never seems to have happened. It would seem sensible if the 720 could go to Norwich as it would add more flexibility.
They are route cleared, however as only Liverpool Street crews sign both route + traction all the way to Norwich it's always a better choice to swap a 720 on to Stansted Express and run a 745/1 to Norwich.
dk1
Veteran Member
They are cleared but Ipswich & Norwich drivers along with guards do not sign them. Ipswich is also the most northern part of the GEML allowing DOO.
I route conducted an Ilford driver through to Norwich Royal Dock a couple of years back on a one off test trip. I would imagine that was the last time one was seen in Norfolk.
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Yes excactly it’s ridiculous that greater anglia decided to order only 20 745s & over 100 fleet of 720s & can’t have the availability to make more flexibility with them by running a few of them on the intercity diagram. If they can run further to Ely & rarely to Kings Lynn on the WAML. I can see why they shouldn’t have a problem running all the way to Norwich some point in the future. It’s only an extra 40 minutes from Ipswich & the 321s have filled in for 90 mk3s rolling out. If it’s possible in the December 2024 timetable, I can see a 17:04 Stowmarket peak hour service for the 720s as the 360s used to cover that route.
Yeah that’s happened about 7 times this year when the 720 ends up on the wrong Stansted diagram. This was due to 4x 745/1s taken out of service leaving a gap shortage for the express route. Especially on Sundays, it’s normally a full house of 745s as of a fewer trains on the intercity diagram. There’s 2 720s on stansted today.
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dk1
Veteran Member
In the original GEML timetable 4x720s where to be stabled overnight at Norwich (NVS sidings) and Norwich drivers started to be trained ready to work the 06:30up plus an ECS move to Stowmarket. Also an 18:00 Ipswich to Norwich was to be a 720 to connect with the 17:00 ex-Liv St which was a Ni90 service.
Once the pandemic struck all class 720 training was cancelled for all depots except Liverpool St on the Anglia Railways side of things. It’s now easier and cheaper to substitute any Stansted Express services with these units releasing 745s for the GEML. Currently there is no need for 720 operation to Norwich.
Once the pandemic struck all class 720 training was cancelled for all depots except Liverpool St on the Anglia Railways side of things. It’s now easier and cheaper to substitute any Stansted Express services with these units releasing 745s for the GEML. Currently there is no need for 720 operation to Norwich.
Been looking through RTT but cannot see this service.
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Adrian1980uk
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I would say it makes no sense to send the 720s on the intercity services as the target should be a fairly consistent product, granted it hasn't been consistent for years now but it should be the target - it's not ideal for the customer expecting first class with coffee and working on a table ect. then turning up to the 720 seating layout.
dk1
Veteran Member
Exactly. Okay there may not be 1st class although unit diagramming has been far more reliable in the last year or so and catering would not get a trolley down a 720 aisle. Tables will be commonplace on 745s shortly. Things ain’t so bad right now.
Adrian1980uk
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Agreed, things aren't so bad but it does seem that GA will have to live with the cock up for many years to come as there's no real answers until passenger numbers increase dramatically to make either an extra intercity train order or more likely a new order of Stansted express units... 10 years time minimum and in cab signalling allowing more paths on the GEML.
dk1
Veteran Member
Yeah we all said it when the stock was first ordered but there you go, it’s done now. Just have to make the best of a bad job.
Yes very true indeed, makes more sense to spare a few 745/1s with tables rolling out & a few triple traction 755s on the intercity route & 720s onto stansted incase a few 745s was to break down or has to be taken out of service as for last weekend. I wonder what greater anglia will do with the 14x 720s which haven’t yet entered onto the geml?
RTT isn’t showing any December timetable changes yet, apart from when Stratford will become the temporary London terminus while Liverpool Street will be closed for 2 weeks.
dk1
Veteran Member
The timetable in RTT is the new one. Very few changes are being made overall this year.
dk1
Veteran Member
Yes we had several minutes shaved from Intercity services then along with the speeding up of the 08:00up/17:00dn running fast between Stratford/Ipswich both ways (SX) and the Ni93 services 08:57up/19:00dn (SO) continuing from next month. The latter are now the fastest scheduled trains on the route and good fun to drive.
RailWonderer
Established Member
I wouldn't call it a bad job, they're installing tables on the 745/1s slowly but surely. The Anglia region has single handedly had the best deal of any region in the country with an entire stock replacement. Travelling on Sprinters in other parts of the country and new units not as impressive reminds me how good we have it, not to mention the most reliable trains as well. A lack of first class is becoming less of an issue as GA are now very good at keeping /0s to Norwich and /1s to Stansted most of the time.
I'm happy no 720 training is being conducted with Ipswich and Norwich crews as it would mean a return to the days of old when 321s did the Norwich IC with uncomfortable cramped seating and no tables or catering. Things are good and can only get better as I see it. The same can't be said for anywhere else.
dk1
Veteran Member
Yes I travel around the country by rail all the time and the difference with many operators their trains and also their stations is so noticeable compared to here. Passengers in this East Anglia are certainly on a winner.
306024
Established Member
As far as East Anglia is concerned we've never had it so good. Reliable service (even if I got stuck behind a late running tamper this morning) means you can plan with some confidence. My only concern is what happens in 35 years time when the whole fleet needs replacing again, but I'll be past caring by then.
As for 720s to Norwich there's simply no requirement, so no need to lumber yourself with unnecessary traincrew costs to maintain the knowledge.
As for 720s to Norwich there's simply no requirement, so no need to lumber yourself with unnecessary traincrew costs to maintain the knowledge.
Apart from the 17.02 LST-NRW (a commuter service) and 1930 return, 321s were only on the Norwich service when a Mk3 set wasn't available, in which case any train was better than no train.
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dk1
Veteran Member
Back in those bad old days another weekday diagram started with the 06:25dn then 09:00up, 11:30dn, 14:00up, 16:30 dn, then into the middle road before shunting out again for the 22:00up.
306024
Established Member
Yep, that was a common substitution, as Liverpool St and Ipswich drivers signed 321s anyway, and of course you Norwich chaps didn’t.
dk1
Veteran Member
Was a prime one for the 322s at one time.
According to rtt, the 08:00dn, 10:30up, 13:00dn, 15:30up, 18:00dn, 20:30up & 23:05dn ipswich is being formed of 7 coaches. 755401x327. This is subject to swap with 745006, 103, 106 & 108 if any of the latter run later on. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C34647/2024-11-23/detailed#allox_id=0
Yes, these present days the 755s are like the spares filling in for the few 745s which aren’t available. I don’t think a single 720 will ever go to Norwich again.
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Adrian1980uk
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I'm not so sure 720s will never go to Norwich as populations increase, therefore passengers, and the all the fleets age and require more maintenance to there will become a time it'll become an operational need given that there aren't enough 745s.
dk1
Veteran Member
I dread to think what the 08:00 was like this morning. I did hear catering was withdrawn. I passed the 10:30 down and it was full and standing. Many 745s have been reported as full up road before Manningtree/Colchester today with passengers advised to use alternative services.
Adrian1980uk
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Pretty snug on the Norwich to London services this morning. I only see the weekday peaks and they are pretty busy - night and day from when I started travelling regularly 2 years ago
Yes 20 is surely not enough for 2 intercity express routes across anglia, requiring 19/20 to be used to run the weekly diagram. That’s why you see a triple traction 755 run on the intercity & a pair of 720s on the stansted express, so they can keep at least 2-3 745s out of service for the day. In this case today 4 are taken out. A 7 car is filling in for 745006. Seems to have really struggled with capacity if it’s already full & standing at Diss the first thing this morning.
Adrian1980uk
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On a weekday of course they'd more likely take a 2nd pair of 720s on the Stansted express.
Looks like it will probably happen. They’ve put on the triple traction forming the 1P53 16:23dn & 1P58 19:00up. Really struggling with 745 availability this weekend. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L68774/2024-11-24/detailed#allox_id=0
Why is 1P58 19:00 to Norwich showing a 720 on rtt again?
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