Is there a link between incidents including fire near Heathrow and North sea ship collision?

[thomasheywood]

Warehouses catching fire, two ships crashing into each other in the North Sea, one of them captained by a Russian and now a substation that’s critical to the running of Heathrow bursts into flames, I’m beginning to see a pattern here…

 

[jon0844]

Warehouses catching fire, two ships crashing into each other in the North Sea, one of them captained by a Russian and now a substation that’s critical to the running of Heathrow bursts into flames, I’m beginning to see a pattern here…

We had a substation fire a month ago. Is that connected too?

I am not sure this is rare an occurrence as you might think. The flames were terrible in our fire and it made the local press but not anything else as - fortunately - the impact was slight. It was next to the ECML but didn't cut power for more than a few seconds.

 

[thomasheywood]

We had a substation fire a month ago. Is that connected too?

I am not sure this is rare an occurrence as you might think. The flames were terrible in our fire and it made the local press but not anything else as - fortunately - the impact was slight. It was next to the ECML but didn't cut power for more than a few seconds.

Seeing as there has been a visible increase in policing at UK airports within the last week it’s not too much of a stretch to think that there is intelligence about whether this is all connected.

 

[davido39]

Warehouses catching fire, two ships crashing into each other in the North Sea, one of them captained by a Russian and now a substation that’s critical to the running of Heathrow bursts into flames, I’m beginning to see a pattern here…

Only to those who fall for Russia's bad propaganda. This was "leaked" to the left-leaning press to try and scupper any hope of their being a peace deal. God forbid the senseless killing stops on both sides. I noticed that the captain was a Rusky propaganda fell out of the news very fast indeed, probably because the news was not entirely truthful. Of course, I will still be waiting to see all the headlines blaming Russia for sabotaging a substation that feeds the busiest airport in the UK.

 

[jon0844]

A lot of power cuts are when something goes bang, so I'm going to need some strong evidence that this fire is in some way a targeted attack.

 

[fishwomp]

A lot of power cuts are when something goes bang, so I'm going to need some strong evidence that this fire is in some way a targeted attack.

Murphy again. He's getting around a bit these days with his law. At least it should encourage us to realize the importance of resilience / redundancy.

 

[Big Sam]

probably because the news was not entirely truthful.

Which part of the news wasn't truthful?

 

[jon0844]

Murphy again. He's getting around a bit these days with his law. At least it should encourage us to realize the importance of resilience / redundancy.

In the case of the recent one at WGC there clearly was some redundancy as besides a brief power spike, the power stayed on despite a fire that took some hours to put out.

 

[md2016]

Only to those who fall for Russia's bad propaganda. This was "leaked" to the left-leaning press to try and scupper any hope of their being a peace deal. God forbid the senseless killing stops on both sides. I noticed that the captain was a Rusky propaganda fell out of the news very fast indeed, probably because the news was not entirely truthful. Of course, I will still be waiting to see all the headlines blaming Russia for sabotaging a substation that feeds the busiest airport in the UK.

Beyond the scope of this thread, but we all need to call out Russian bot algorithm nonsense.

Read about the Munich agreement. See what happened in 2014. Appeasement and peace deals don’t stop imperialists who want to build empires, especially if they’re come without security guarantees. Every time the US crossed Russian “red lines” Russia retreated rather than escalated, as all they know and respect is force.

The ship’s captain also hasn’t fallen out of the news because it’s untrue. Russian Vladimir Motin has been charged. Whether he knew he was crashing into an anchored ship containing jet fuel heading to Ukraine is a separate question.

 

[AlistairCowell]

This is now being investigated, but there is no indication of any foul play that has resulted in the closing Heathrow Airport.

Heathrow Airport: flights resume following power outage - BBC News

A limited number of flights have resumed from Heathrow Airport after a power outage following a fire.

www.bbc.co.uk

There was also two fires near my bit last night, a fire in Kilpatrick Hills and another at Erskine, on the way home from Braehead XSite after our dinner there.

 

[Dai Corner]

There have been lots of wildfires in the south Wales valleys recently. I'm not sure whether they were started by radicalised Russian-supporting wannabe terrorists, by fire engine enthusiasts wanting to see the blue lights and hear the sirens, by careless smokers of tobacco or other substances or by kids who thought I would be fun.

 

[Trackman]

This is now being investigated, but there is no indication of any foul play that has resulted in the closing Heathrow Airport.

I think this will be the case (in fact, they are fairly sure there was no foul play).
Firstly, if it was a terrorist organization or whoever who wanted to shut down Heathrow, how would they know which substation and if there is no back up supply or a grid re-routing backup?
Must be very difficult to enter the substation site (and very dangerous) and then to figure out what to target.

There have been lots of wildfires in the south Wales valleys recently. I'm not sure whether they were started by radicalised Russian-supporting wannabe terrorists, by fire engine enthusiasts wanting to see the blue lights and hear the sirens, by careless smokers of tobacco or other substances or by kids who thought I would be fun.

Class 85 and 86's and a 90 being written off due to fire spring to mind.
Coolant oil setting on fire, writing off the loco.

Well, it took BR a while to figure this one out, they needed reverser locks with a release button - if the driver accidentally moved the reverser at speed, all hell could break loose, once the coolant oil is on fire, it's game over.

 

[styles]

I'm no tin foil hat merchant, but similar to the maritime disaster, I don't think we should be ruling out intentional sabotage.

Bear in mind that there is form of Russians (or their allies) instigating arson in the UK even in the past year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgexrw3x2xo

A man has admitted carrying out an arson attack on a Ukrainian-owned business in east London on behalf of Russia.

Mr Earl, from Elmesthorpe in Leicestershire, pleaded not guilty to a third charge of assisting a foreign intelligence service. The prosecution said it would not proceed with that charge.

I'm hesitant to jump to the conclusion that it's definitely Russia, but I think it would be naive to rule it out.

 

[edwin_m]

My feeling is that it's in Russia's interest for people to at least strongly suspect they are behind such events, to create an atmosphere where people are less willing to stand up to them.

I call it "implausible deniability", probably best seen with the Salisbury poisoners giving a highly improbable story of going to see the cathedral.

So if it is them, they aren't going to go to great lengths to conceal that fact.

 

[DelW]

I'm no tin foil hat merchant, but similar to the maritime disaster, I don't think we should be ruling out intentional sabotage.

Bear in mind that there is form of Russians (or their allies) instigating arson in the UK even in the past year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgexrw3x2xo

I'm hesitant to jump to the conclusion that it's definitely Russia, but I think it would be naive to rule it out.

Regarding the Solong / Stena collision, tracking records show that the Solong was travelling along its regular track:

What tracking data tells us

The Solong has taken an almost identical path along the Yorkshire coast 19 times over the past five months. On those occasions, it travelled to or from Grangemouth in Scotland to either Hull or Rotterdam in the Netherlands.

Quoted from:

Why did the ships crash in the North Sea? What tracking data and inspection reports reveal

Sky News’ Data & Forensics unit takes a closer look at the circumstances behind the collision between container ship Solong and oil tanker Stena Immaculate off the coast of Yorkshire.

news.sky.com

The same article shows the Solong travelling on a straight course for a considerable distance before the collision. It would be very difficult to aim at a ship on a swinging anchorage without using course corrections on the approach.

While it's always sensible to be aware of possible sabotage, I think that one at least is definitely cockup not conspiracy.

 

[Gloster]

I think that all these incidents, not that it is many, coming in succession is just random chance. However, the tin-foil hat brigade who don’t understand the laws of probability are going to make a lot of noise and produce media clickbait to worry people. I am sure that there are interests that have ulterior commercial or political motives who will stir the pot. Russia does seem to occasionally do such things and it is grist to their mill if people thing that things they had nothing to do with were actually their work. (I don’t see that as being a conspiracy theory.)

 

[styles]

Regarding the Solong / Stena collision, tracking records show that the Solong was travelling along its regular track:


Quoted from:

Why did the ships crash in the North Sea? What tracking data and inspection reports reveal

Sky News’ Data & Forensics unit takes a closer look at the circumstances behind the collision between container ship Solong and oil tanker Stena Immaculate off the coast of Yorkshire.

news.sky.com

The same article shows the Solong travelling on a straight course for a considerable distance before the collision. It would be very difficult to aim at a ship on a swinging anchorage without using course corrections on the approach.

While it's always sensible to be aware of possible sabotage, I think that one at least is definitely cockup not conspiracy.

Yes it's also a convenient excuse though.

A modern goods ship with radar, automatic collision detection, and presumably a duty captain, didn't spot a giant oil tanker?

Again, not throwing the accusation per se, but I wouldn't rule anything out in an investigation..

 

[DelW]

Yes it's also a convenient excuse though.

A modern goods ship with radar, automatic collision detection, and presumably a duty captain, didn't spot a giant oil tanker?

Again, not throwing the accusation per se, but I wouldn't rule anything out in an investigation..

At best, it was serious dereliction of duty by Solong's captain and officers. It would appear unarguable that no adequate watch was being kept.

 

[styles]

At best, it was serious dereliction of duty by Solong's captain and officers. It would appear unarguable that no adequate watch was being kept.

It would appear that to somebody without an open mind yes.

 

[Dai Corner]

It would appear that to somebody without an open mind yes.

The trial of the captain and inquest for the man missing and presumed dead may prove interesting.

 

[DelW]

It would appear that to somebody without an open mind yes.

The only alternative is that it was deliberate. But I doubt if we'll hear anything significant until after the court case is heard. Investigators will not want to compromise that.

 

[Railwaycat]

Yes it's also a convenient excuse though.

A modern goods ship with radar, automatic collision detection, and presumably a duty captain, didn't spot a giant oil tanker?

Again, not throwing the accusation per se, but I wouldn't rule anything out in an investigation..

You don't know what happened on all the previous voyages on the same track that the ship took, possibly they never came close to another ship at anchor. Familiarity breeds contempt (and if the tanker had really caught fire they could all have died).

 

[Russel]

Bad thing happens... It MUST be Russia, things like this simply didn't happen before Feb 22, did they?!

 

[styles]

Bad thing happens... It MUST be Russia, things like this simply didn't happen before Feb 22, did they?!

Tapping into your expertise here - when was the last time a Russian controlled ship crashed into a US military oil tanker?

You don't know what happened on all the previous voyages on the same track that the ship took, possibly they never came close to another ship at anchor. Familiarity breeds contempt (and if the tanker had really caught fire they could all have died).

Indeed. It's entirely possible it was mere negligence.

I put it that it is naïve to rule out malice though.

 

[The North Briton]

The ship’s captain also hasn’t fallen out of the news because it’s untrue. Russian Vladimir Motin has been charged. Whether he knew he was crashing into an anchored ship containing jet fuel heading to Ukraine is a separate question.

I thought the tanker was waiting to berth at South Killingholme?

 

[HSTEd]

It would be a very long game if Russia was behind Heathrow's decision not to invest in a sufficiently hardened power supply!

As someone from the nuclear industry, the idea that a single fire in a grid supply point can collapse the operation of such a critical facility raises questions about whether Heathrow is at all suitable for expansion.

 

[40875704]

I predict the investigation will reveal an old and poorly maintained substation with maintenance outstanding or falsified as done.
Anyone else want to putin their predictions?

 

[edwin_m]

I predict the investigation will reveal an old and poorly maintained substation with maintenance outstanding or falsified as done.
Anyone else want to putin their predictions?

Pun intended I presume.

Having suggested upthread that it's in Russia's interest for others to at least suspect they were responsible, donning a second tinfoil hat I might suggest that if Russia is responsible, it may be in the interests of the West not to acknowldge it. Being forced by public opinion to do something rash may not ultimately be in the public interest.

 

[Lloyds siding]

It would be a very long game if Russia was behind Heathrow's decision not to invest in a sufficiently hardened power supply!

As someone from the nuclear industry, the idea that a single fire in a grid supply point can collapse the operation of such a critical facility raises questions about whether Heathrow is at all suitable for expansion.

A friend of mine worked as an engineer during the construction on one of our reactors. He told me that the control cables and the back-up cables were alongside each other in the same duct. He queried this, but was told to get on with his job.

 

[Russel]

Tapping into your expertise here - when was the last time a Russian controlled ship crashed into a US military oil tanker?

No idea... but to jump to the conclusion that it must be Russian sabotage, any time something bad happens, is borderline paranoia and playing right into Putin's hands, fires and industrial accidents have always happened.