Is this a record Liverpool to Euston time?

[cambsy]

Dren Ahmeti, are Bristol drivers, well known for being hard nosed drivers then? and are Plymouth drivers up there to?. RPS logs, seem to bear out that, speeding these days, just doesn’t happen, not saying, there haven’t been instances of it, but they not been recorded, there just too much risk nowadays, for drivers to speed, i think its pretty hammered out of them, one has to go back 15-20 years, to find drivers, going much over the line speeds.

 

[mmh]

Arguably no. It started 4 down and finished 3 early. Its got 6 minutes engineering allowance in it, and a bit of pathing time. If there are no TSRs on then you would expect it to start running early unless there is a station stop to eat it back up again. Note the time it clawed back at Winsford, the pathing time is there to keep it apart from something in front, it was late so it didn't need it.

What's the arguably? It was either the quickest end to end train, or it wasn't. I think that's what's being asked here, rather than anything more complicated.

 

[cambsy]

Irish-rail, just watched the YouTube video, of the Paddington-Reading, speed run, which did it in 21.25, in 2018, was this run, given any dispensations? Was it driven harder than normal? Is this pretty much the fastest, it could be done in? Do you think its been broken, by a service train? It was interesting to watch, and see what it could be done in.

 

[The Planner]

What's the arguably? It was either the quickest end to end train, or it wasn't. I think that's what's being asked here, rather than anything more complicated.

Ok then it wasn't, not sure why you are getting your underwear in a twist about it. I would ignore whatever RTT etc say when it comes this anyway.

 

[irish_rail]

Irish-rail, just watched the YouTube video, of the Paddington-Reading, speed run, which did it in 21.25, in 2018, was this run, given any dispensations? Was it driven harder than normal? Is this pretty much the fastest, it could be done in? Do you think its been broken, by a service train? It was interesting to watch, and see what it could be done in.

Trust me thats been beaten, thats all I'm saying.

 

[47827]

Anyone who used Reading to Paddington before the early 2000s will know that things used to be a little different, before those pesky Heathrow trains arrived especially. I'd never name names (although I forget most now anyway) but often times were very quick, usually going into London and often with fast arrivals into the Paddington platforms when tpws wasn't yet an issue. Hard braking and stopping "just in time" wasn't uncommon and that tended to follow a little bit of overspeed (especially on loco hauled trains which would comfortably get into 3 digits) on occasions. Arrival with rising smoke and fragments of brake dust on the blocks wasn't uncommon. Apologies I haven't got the stats but know the runs were far better than the quickest schedules. On rare occasions westbound runs to Reading were similar and even an odd time the GW sleepers had a flier if the fasts were open.

 

[Sean Emmett]

RTT is useful and relevant when you compare RTT logs of different runs, then compare them with stopwatch logs, which will have more accurate start / stop times.

I generally save the RTT logs of the trains I time. In my experience, RTT may slightly understate, rather than overstate, the actual start to stop time.

As for speeds above 125 mph, in 2020 GWR released a 'video' of a cab ride from Bristol Parkway to Paddington. In the absence of real trains to time, RPS members were invited to compile a log from the video, and submit them to the editor of 'Milepost'.

A large number of members responded, and we all got speeds of 130+ mph on the descent from Badminton to Little Somerford. We concluded that, somehow, the video must have been played back a tad quicker than it should have....

 

[irish_rail]

RTT is useful and relevant when you compare RTT logs of different runs, then compare them with stopwatch logs, which will have more accurate start / stop times.

I generally save the RTT logs of the trains I time. In my experience, RTT may slightly understate, rather than overstate, the actual start to stop time.

As for speeds above 125 mph, in 2020 GWR released a 'video' of a cab ride from Bristol Parkway to Paddington. In the absence of real trains to time, RPS members were invited to compile a log from the video, and submit them to the editor of 'Milepost'.

A large number of members responded, and we all got speeds of 130+ mph on the descent from Badminton to Little Somerford. We concluded that, somehow, the video must have been played back a tad quicker than it should have....

Realtime trains seems pretty inaccurate to me. I recently recorded a record Reading to Paddington timing and yet realtime trains claimed it took 22 minutes despite the fact it was closer to 21 minutes.

 

[73128]

What is the best class 387 time between Reading and Paddington and vv please?

 

[notadriver]

I’ve been on a Uk train that averaged nearly 120 mph start to stop which I’m pretty sure is a record.

 

[Wychwood93]

What is the best class 387 time between Reading and Paddington and vv please?

Both my own runs - only sent the database including them this evening to the guy who deals with the archive (so not on the RPS site). Reading/Padd in 24m 03s and Padd/Reading in 24m 24s. Both were mostly around the 110 max in general.

 

[Bevan Price]

There where in the past plenty of drivers who would speed , I think that's common knowledge and something that happened in BR times, most certainly not nowadays.

Drivers on their last duty of the day were prone to give "lively" runs many years ago. I always wondered if some of them hoped to get home before "closing time" for a brief "refreshment break" (not that they would consume so much that they would be unfit for work on the next day.)

The other cause of overspeeding could be "dodgy" speedos -- some of the 47s used in North Wales in the early 2000s had that problem. My fastest time from Chester to Prestatyn averaged more than the 75mph line limit applicable at that time......

 

[Wychwood93]

Drivers on their last duty of the day were prone to give "lively" runs many years ago. I always wondered if some of them hoped to get home before "closing time" for a brief "refreshment break" (not that they would consume so much that they would be unfit for work on the next day.)

The other cause of overspeeding could be "dodgy" speedos -- some of the 47s used in North Wales in the early 2000s had that problem. My fastest time from Chester to Prestatyn averaged more than the 75mph line limit applicable at that time......

Just had a look at that run - the 'dodgy' speedo continued all the way to Holyhead!

 

[47827]

Drivers on their last duty of the day were prone to give "lively" runs many years ago. I always wondered if some of them hoped to get home before "closing time" for a brief "refreshment break" (not that they would consume so much that they would be unfit for work on the next day.)

The other cause of overspeeding could be "dodgy" speedos -- some of the 47s used in North Wales in the early 2000s had that problem. My fastest time from Chester to Prestatyn averaged more than the 75mph line limit applicable at that time......

Contrary to what a few folk that didn't see beyond prejudice against that route (or the area in general) thought, there were some amazing drivers based at Holyhead from a performance angle. Most of the BR era lot (a few of whom survive in the job I believe), whether good timekeepers or not, were also good at getting stuff to Holyhead in one piece or just keeping the job going. Some would then be straight in the office to book a string of issues with the loco. In later years, once the spare loco options on Anglesey were non existent this could result in all manner of freight or parcels traction having to run light in the small hours to take the next day's diagram back. To be fair though on stuff like the former FO boat train 22xx Euston to Holyhead (which had spells of being booked a vice HST) when 47757 was rolled off CD in a state the driver was right to not simply call failure when all the safety gubbins still worked and it could be repeatedly coaxed back to like multiple times and he knew the odds were in his favour. The chap in question had a spell of being Euston based in BR days and worked all manner of AC power to Liverpool back then so could yet get this back on topic ish? Several years earlier he had been refused permission to top oil up at Colwyn Bay from a suitable source he had arranged and was forced to restart 47707 which had been sent out low oil levels. At Rhyl we had the road and were about to move but it was put back and our same driver left fuming by the news a 37/4 was already en route from Chester when he was OK to go forward albeit taking it steady. It took an hour to get the 37, and get moving which is very organised compared to failures these days.

The 4 coach sets sets with 47s 2002-2005, albeit with sets and locos not always turned out so well often ran with some of the old hands blasting the 175 timings and keeping or beating them slightly (if no significant platform time). They were a lot tighter than some of the schedules now which are mostly for less athletic 158s these days. An hour Bangor to Chester with several stops was the norm for instance.

 

[dk1]

Drivers on their last duty of the day were prone to give "lively" runs many years ago. I always wondered if some of them hoped to get home before "closing time" for a brief "refreshment break" (not that they would consume so much that they would be unfit for work on the next day.)

The other cause of overspeeding could be "dodgy" speedos -- some of the 47s used in North Wales in the early 2000s had that problem. My fastest time from Chester to Prestatyn averaged more than the 75mph line limit applicable at that time......

Happy days indeed.

 

[cambsy]

47827, I had a brilliant run in the mid-late 80’s, on a Holyhead-Euston relief, booked non stop Holyhead-Chester, was a 47/8, with mk2 non air con, I was at Holyhead, on an ALR, was 16-18 at the time, and was about to catch said relief train, i went up to engine and talked to the driver, and asked bit cheekily if could have a cab ride, which the driver agreed to, so i hopped in the cab,and got ready for the non stop run to Chester, we left on time, and the driver straight away, set off with gusto, with speed soon getting above line speed, and reaching 99 mph, from speedo, all on Anglesey, before stopping in Bangor, through roads, due to trespassers spotted on Menai bridge, then set off again, with speeds soon up to 90mph, which we did a lot of the way to Chester.

The driver, was quite a character, and let me use the horn, he ran very hard all the way, getting up to 90mph and staying there, much as he could, despite running early, we had hell of a thrash, along the North Wales Coast, with some very lively running indeed, eventually arriving Chester 20 mins early where i bailed out the loco, and joined the carriages, for the run to Euston, unfortunately didnt record the loco, or any timings, as too excited, at having cab ride, was just a great run, and amazing having a long cab ride.

 

[47827]

47827, I had a brilliant run in the mid-late 80’s, on a Holyhead-Euston relief, booked non stop Holyhead-Chester, was a 47/8, with mk2 non air con, I was at Holyhead, on an ALR, was 16-18 at the time, and was about to catch said relief train, i went up to engine and talked to the driver, and asked bit cheekily if could have a cab ride, which the driver agreed to, so i hopped in the cab,and got ready for the non stop run to Chester, we left on time, and the driver straight away, set off with gusto, with speed soon getting above line speed, and reaching 99 mph, from speedo, all on Anglesey, before stopping in Bangor, through roads, due to trespassers spotted on Menai bridge, then set off again, with speeds soon up to 90mph, which we did a lot of the way to Chester.

The driver, was quite a character, and let me use the horn, he ran very hard all the way, getting up to 90mph and staying there, much as he could, despite running early, we had hell of a thrash, along the North Wales Coast, with some very lively running indeed, eventually arriving Chester 20 mins early where i bailed out the loco, and joined the carriages, for the run to Euston, unfortunately didnt record the loco, or any timings, as too excited, at having cab ride, was just a great run, and amazing having a long cab ride.

A brilliant story. Thanks for sharing. Was reminding me of a few similar experiences in the later years. There was one train in particular booked a mk3 DVT set SX in the early hours of the morning. It was a ridiculous diagram as it involved running in service the previous night (with over 100+ locos that could turn up, some on borrowed time and increasingly rare) then the set returning to Longsight with a Holyhead driver to Crewe, who would wait a few hours for the HST to appear off Longsight to work the second Euston back. There were occasions when that ECS move was cancelled or formed of faulty HST and the hauled set work back in the morning. Anyway, the early doors stock move to Longsight occasionally was OK for an authorised/planned lift in various formats including with the driver. So the story above gave a few occasions where the runs were similar to that described above, although Chester was rarely a stop. Certainly hit Crewe in comfortably under 90 mins on a handful of occasions non stop, although the average was just over 90 mins. The quote at Mostyn one night was "and when we go over that bit it'll feel a bit like we are gonna fall off the track as it needs tamping better". There were a few other boat trains overnight (mostly Sunday mornings in the summer) with no stop until Chester but I was generally too out of it on those ones to recall timekeeping.

In later years I've been on numerous charters, but very few could hammer along that fast, even with few stops as often you'd be following service trains. There were probably a few authorised ECS runs via work though with various traction, even on heavy loads, that did well although doubt they'd match the best of yesteryear and I'd have been asleep or failing to pay proper attention.

 

[II]

With platform 10 at Reading the driver can whack the throttle wide open and let it go. On 11, if you did that you would be speeding before you reach the point where the 95 becomes 125mph and ATP will intervene or warble at very least, meaning driver has to shut off power until the whole train has cleared the 95mph section.

Agreed, though I think you mean where the 50mph limit through Platform 11 becomes 80/95mph for the small section before the 125mph limit kicks back in?