Is this allowed with an Off-Peak return?

Status
Not open for further replies.

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,026
If I were to do the following round trip around Kent...
  • Day 1: London St Pancras to Ashford to Canterbury
  • Day 2: Stay in Canterbury
  • Day 3: Canterbury to Ramsgate to Chatham to London St Pancras

Would an Off-Peak Return (SVR) from London to Ramsgate be the most appropriate ticket to buy, seeing as it is valid via Ashford AND Chatham? Would it allow me to break my outward journey in Canterbury on Day 1, and resume it on Day 3?

Thanks. :)
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,475
Location
Yorkshire
No times are provided so we don't have much to go on, but I think an Off Peak return would obviously not be accepted for such an itinerary (I suspect a Penalty Fare could be issued) and I don't think it would be valid either.

The issue of the validity of an Off Peak Return for overnight break of journey on the outward portion is confusing, and I will refer you to my recent post on the subject:

The old wording used to be not great as I was once involved in an altercation at Slough with some disgraceful FGW barrier staff who attempted to stop me breaking my journey (York-Weymouth) overnight. I had absolutely no problems with the far better FGW and SWT guards. The wording then changed to the wording in the original post, and that was a huge step forward as it gave customers the right to choose (and not be forced to arrive at their destination at some daft time like 0130!)

But now they've changed again, but not in all places, and are even more confusing. It appears the new wording contains errors. This was clarified in an extremely helpful post by a very helpful member of this forum back in September 2011.
Even by the most generous interpretation your journey on Day 3 would have to be in the very early hours of the morning.
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,026
No times are provided so we don't have much to go on, but I think an Off Peak return would obviously not be accepted for such an itinerary (I suspect a Penalty Fare could be issued) and I don't think it would be valid either.

The issue of the validity of an Off Peak Return for overnight break of journey on the outward portion is confusing, and I will refer you to my recent post on the subject:



Even by the most generous interpretation your journey on Day 3 would have to be in the very early hours of the morning.
Oh joy - ATOC one again make life easy to leisure travellers filling up spare capacity on Off-Peak trains. :roll:

The journeys would commence after 10am every day, so the "resume your journey on Day 3 buy 0429" obviously doesn't apply in this case.

So does anyone have a suggested ticket for this journey (I'm not very familiar with Kent)? Or will I just have to buy a Canterbury to Ramsgate CDS on Day 3?
 
Last edited:

Ivo

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2010
Messages
7,307
Location
Bath (or Southend)
You'd need an SOR. And I suspect that flow doesn't have one.
STP - RAM does have an SOR - but only where issued from London Terminals and not STP. Via HS1 it costs a ridiculous (even by HS1 standards) £71.20; even not via HS1 is £65.60 (prices quoted are Adult fares). It's cheaper to have the tickets issued to Margate instead - but from what I can see that may well fall foul of the Fares Check rule if not done direct. (Someone who is more "able" with said rule can confirm as much.)
 

MarkyMarkD

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2009
Messages
504
Location
Cliftonville, Margate, Kent
Is it just me, or isn't the answer simple?

What is wrong with an Off Peak Return from STP to Canterbury Stations +HS1?

Restriction code 4A - break of journey allowed.

And valid via Ashford because Ashford is a routing point for London to Canterbury, and fares to Ashford are lower than fares to Canterbury.

If I'm missing something obvious, please do let me know!
 

calc7

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
2,097
Presumably because London to Ramsgate is not much more expensive than London to Canterbury and so All Line Rover was hoping to use just the one ticket for both parts of his journey.
 

MarkyMarkD

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2009
Messages
504
Location
Cliftonville, Margate, Kent
Hmm, I think I missed the Ramsgate bit and Ramsgate is more expensive than Canterbury so presumably fails the fare check. D'oh! Back to the drawing board.

I have a private suggestion I will PM to ALR which I think does the job cheaper (although not with an OPR).
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
50,475
Location
Yorkshire
Hmm, I think I missed the Ramsgate bit and Ramsgate is more expensive than Canterbury so presumably fails the fare check. D'oh! Back to the drawing board.
Yes. Ramsgate Group is a Routeing Point (RP) for Canterbury Stations. However, for Ramsgate Group to be an appropriate RP for a given flow, one of the following fares: CDS, SVS, SDS or SOS to Ramsgate Group would need to be no greater than to Canterbury Stations. If all of these are higher, then the RP is not appropriate.
I have a private suggestion I will PM to ALR which I think does the job cheaper (although not with an OPR).
Ah, I see what you're thinking. Yes, anomalies are best sent as a PM (unless their status is protected and/or they're already well known) given that it could be withdrawn otherwise. There's no OPRs here, but I am guessing you're referring to SVR as such. In this case that can be deduced but for other flows, it can get confusing. Many of the codes refer to the old ticket names (in this case Off Peak Return - SVR, used to be Saver Return, the code SVR remains).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top