Is using the breakthrough for gates on TfL (without an emergency) llegal?

[kijeta]

Are there any CoC/byelaws/RoRAs that specifically prohibit using breakthrough to open a gate in lieu of intermediate validation (i.e., not as a BoJ), with a valid ticket? This question mainly applies to LU, EL, LO.

That is to say, if a passenger were to hold a validated oyster card at their origin (that is "in the system" with the max fare temporarily deducted), but intend to go through a barrier gate (while remaining within the system both before and after) in order to continue their journey, without breaking the journey; would that be illegal?

Would an RPI witnessing the passenger push through the gates into the system have any grounds to issue a PCN or prosecute, if the handheld scanners (correctly) display a valid oyster card?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are there any CoC/byelaws/RoRAs that specifically prohibit using breakthrough to open a gate in lieu of intermediate validation (i.e., not as a BoJ), with a valid ticket? This question mainly applies to LU, EL, LO.

That is to say, if a passenger were to hold a validated oyster card at their origin (that is "in the system" with the max fare temporarily deducted), but intend to go through a barrier gate (while remaining within the system both before and after) in order to continue their journey, without breaking the journey; would that be illegal?

Would an RPI witnessing the passenger push through the gates into the system have any grounds to issue a PCN or prosecute, if the handheld scanners (correctly) display a valid oyster card?

Offence under TfL Bylaw 9.2:

(2) Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station on the railway is via a manned or automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

Immaterial as to whether the fare has been paid or any ticket held.

 

[Watershed]

Are there any CoC/byelaws/RoRAs that specifically prohibit using breakthrough to open a gate in lieu of intermediate validation (i.e., not as a BoJ), with a valid ticket? This question mainly applies to LU, EL, LO.

That is to say, if a passenger were to hold a validated oyster card at their origin (that is "in the system" with the max fare temporarily deducted), but intend to go through a barrier gate (while remaining within the system both before and after) in order to continue their journey, without breaking the journey; would that be illegal?

Would an RPI witnessing the passenger push through the gates into the system have any grounds to issue a PCN or prosecute, if the handheld scanners (correctly) display a valid oyster card?

I feel like there's a story behind this. Would you care to elaborate so we can comment on what happened?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It's perhaps worth noting that TfL has the concept of Out of Station Interchanges (OSIs) which allows certain changes between stations to be treated as being one continuous journey. See https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/out-of-station-interchanges

 

[Adam Williams]

Offence under TfL Bylaw 9.2:

(2) Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station on the railway is via a manned or automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

Immaterial as to whether the fare has been paid or any ticket held.

It's slightly unrelated to the scenario the OP is describing, but: Does this apply when the barrier is left closed but unmanned? My SO had this with a TfL station very recently. My advice was just to push through the wide aisle gate after it became clear that no staff were around and then make the safety complaint by phone but I'm not sure what the "right" course of action was supposed to be! The first question asked over the phone was apparently "were you evading the fare?"

Barrier wouldn't accept the magstripe ticket, but it was valid.

I imagine it wouldn't be in the public interest to do anything in cases like these where TfL has been negligent, but I'm surprised there's no explicit defence in the byelaws.

 

[higthomas]

I also had similar recently where the member of staff on London Overground refused to accept that break of journey was a thing and then just left.
I forced my way through the wide gate, but didn't like it.

 

[kacper]

forced my way through the wide gate, but didn't like

This is a byelaw offence and you shouldn't have done that, you should've tapped out and contacted TfL later on for a refund

 

[The exile]

This is a byelaw offence and you shouldn't have done that, you should've tapped out and contacted TfL later on for a refund

Difficult to tap out if you’re on a proper ticket!

 

[sheff1]

Difficult to tap out if you’re on a proper ticket!

Indeed. I had a similiar problem in London, but just I was heading to the wide gate it was forced open by a youth who held it open for his mates to pass through.
The person who could not grasp the simple concept of Break of Journey seemed completely happy with half a dozen people exiting with, presumably, no ticket at all.

 

[pedr]

Difficult to tap out if you’re on a proper ticket!

What happens if you tap a contactless card which isn’t tapped in on an exit gate?

 

[plugwash]

What happens if you tap a contactless card which isn’t tapped in on an exit gate?

The gate will let you out, and you will be charged an incomplete journey fare.

 

[Sonic1234]

Does this apply when the barrier is left closed but unmanned?

If there is someone around to catch you, there is someone around to open the gate. As a radio ad for a game said "what makes someone a criminal? Getting caught"

Bit different if you have someone who refuses to believe your ticket is valid or understand break of journey. Had a gateline assistant clearly not believe me about break of journey today on Southern metro, but at least the staff are so demotivated they let you through anyway (with an eye roll). These sort of experiences make you realise just what precious things ungated stations are.

 

[Hadders]

It's slightly unrelated to the scenario the OP is describing, but: Does this apply when the barrier is left closed but unmanned? My SO had this with a TfL station very recently. My advice was just to push through the wide aisle gate after it became clear that no staff were around and then make the safety complaint by phone but I'm not sure what the "right" course of action was supposed to be! The first question asked over the phone was apparently "were you evading the fare?"

Barrier wouldn't accept the magstripe ticket, but it was valid.

I imagine it wouldn't be in the public interest to do anything in cases like these where TfL has been negligent, but I'm surprised there's no explicit defence in the byelaws.

There should be an emergency plunger somewhere near the gateline. That should release the gates and set off an alarm which I would imagine would result in staff appearing rather quickly.

 

[MikeWh]

That is to say, if a passenger were to hold a validated oyster card at their origin (that is "in the system" with the max fare temporarily deducted), but intend to go through a barrier gate (while remaining within the system both before and after) in order to continue their journey, without breaking the journey; would that be illegal?

You must have a specific scenario in mind here. There are very few places where you would need to go through a single barrier in the middle of your journey. The most obvious is at Waterloo Underground station if you have used, or are about to use, the Waterloo and City Line. The W&C platforms have validators rather than gates leading to them. If you use a gate to exit from the Northern line you are then supposed to touch on a validator before using the W&C line. If you do then the two journeys will be joined together as one and you won't be charged any extra.

Please expand on your exact scenario and someone will be able to give specific advice for your situation.

 

[kijeta]

I feel like there's a story behind this. Would you care to elaborate so we can comment on what happened?

Thanks all. I can confirm that there isn't (yet) a story behind this, but rather just me hypothesising what would happen.

You must have a specific scenario in mind here. There are very few places where you would need to go through a single barrier in the middle of your journey. The most obvious is at Waterloo Underground station if you have used, or are about to use, the Waterloo and City Line. The W&C platforms have validators rather than gates leading to them. If you use a gate to exit from the Northern line you are then supposed to touch on a validator before using the W&C line. If you do then the two journeys will be joined together as one and you won't be charged any extra.

Please expand on your exact scenario and someone will be able to give specific advice for your situation.

Waterloo is one potential place I could think of this happening, as I have previously posted in your forum (https://oysterfares.com/topic/how-to-use-the-osi-at-waterloo-wc/).

Another place where a continuation entry should, but doesn't, happen is Canary Wharf EL. Although Canary Wharf LU has continuation entry, I have recently tried (and have been max fared) to enter Canary Wharf EL from West India Quay DLR (not tapping on the validators at West India Quay).

 

[MikeWh]

as I have previously posted in your forum (https://oysterfares.com/topic/how-to-use-the-osi-at-waterloo-wc/).

Ah yes, I remember that thread now. Could you update what has happened since (on my forum preferably, so others can follow the thread)?

 

[Towers]

This is a byelaw offence and you shouldn't have done that, you should've tapped out and contacted TfL later on for a refund

Why on earth should a person have to do that, or be expected to do so owing to a member of staff who isn’t competent to correctly carry out their job? Would TfL gladly provide compensation for the time spent chasing said refund?

 

[kacper]

Why on earth should a person have to do that, or be expected to do so owing to a member of staff who isn’t competent to correctly carry out their job? Would TfL gladly provide compensation for the time spent chasing said refund?

I'd much rather temporarily loose £10 than risking a criminal conviction...

 

[OscarH]

I'd much rather temporarily loose £10 than risking a criminal conviction...

Sure, reasonable choice.

But the point is more that it's absolutely absurd that you'd have to make that choice.

 

[redreni]

You must have a specific scenario in mind here. There are very few places where you would need to go through a single barrier in the middle of your journey. The most obvious is at Waterloo Underground station if you have used, or are about to use, the Waterloo and City Line. The W&C platforms have validators rather than gates leading to them. If you use a gate to exit from the Northern line you are then supposed to touch on a validator before using the W&C line. If you do then the two journeys will be joined together as one and you won't be charged any extra.

Please expand on your exact scenario and someone will be able to give specific advice for your situation.

Thanks all. I can confirm that there isn't (yet) a story behind this, but rather just me hypothesising what would happen.


Waterloo is one potential place I could think of this happening, as I have previously posted in your forum (https://oysterfares.com/topic/how-to-use-the-osi-at-waterloo-wc/).

Another place where a continuation entry should, but doesn't, happen is Canary Wharf EL. Although Canary Wharf LU has continuation entry, I have recently tried (and have been max fared) to enter Canary Wharf EL from West India Quay DLR (not tapping on the validators at West India Quay).

I doubt forcing through that ridiculous internal gateline at Waterloo Underground would go down well, but I can't see that it would contravene TfL Bylaw 9.2 either, as the gateline is internal within the station. The bylaw offence is only committed if you enter or leave a station without passing correctly through the barriers.

As Mike says, though, it's hard to see why you'd want to do this rather than tapping on both the barrier and a W&C validator? I appreciate it's a rubbish interchange which will catch out the unsuspecting, but once you know what to do it'd be easier in this case simply to do it, wouldn't it?

 

[stadler]

I have forced open the wide gateline dozens of times when my ticket has not worked and there are no staff around. I find those Steatite printers that Guards use often fail to properly encode the mag stripe and as a result the Travelcard tickets do not work the barriers. There is supposed to be a staff member standing by the gateline if it is closed but often (especially at quieter times) they seem to go off in to their office and just leave the gateline unattended but still closed. Bayswater and Queensway are particularly bad for this. I doubt that TFL would care about someone like me in these situations who has a legitimate reason to force it open.

 

[Sonic1234]

TfL grades each station on the amount of time the gates are in use, therefore local station management has an incentive to keep the gates closed even if they can't be adequately supervised. Because "everyone" uses contactless which isn't refused, they get away with unsupervised gates. If everytime they stepped away they came back to the emergency release being pressed and/or someone stuck in a gate and/or a health and safety prosecution, things would be different. But they don't.

The other thing you see on TfL a lot is the wide gate left open but the others closed - this fools the gate software that they are operational.

 

[bkhtele]

Some gatelines are operated remotely with cctv. To exit/enter you use the help point & staff will operate the gate if they are happy with your ticket. Interestingly serveral gatelines in Paris metro seemed to use this system as well, most were unmanned.

 

[Hadders]

The signage at Leytonstone’s High Road advises passengers to use the emergency button on the Help Point if the barriers are locked during train service hours.

 

[styles]

There should be an emergency plunger somewhere near the gateline. That should release the gates and set off an alarm which I would imagine would result in staff appearing rather quickly.

Pretty wild that this is a consideration.

But on this - I don't believe I've ever actually seen an emergency release button for a gate line (rail side). What do they look like? I assumed really that emergencies are the reason the barriers aren't impossible to push through. Even the non-wide barriers can be pushed through reasonably easily.

 

[cool110]

But on this - I don't believe I've ever actually seen an emergency release button for a gate line (rail side). What do they look like

It's a standard "emergency stop" button above the control panel

Behind a yellow pad when the door is closed

 

[styles]

It's a standard "emergency stop" button above the control panel
View attachment 175334
Behind a yellow pad when the door is closed
View attachment 175335

Are these always rail side then?

I'd be surprised if many passengers had the thinking to use this.

 

[Sonic1234]

Are these always rail side then?

Yes. The intended use it to allow you to get out of a station in an emergency.

There isn't one to get into a station.

 

[Benjwri]

I feel l can provide a perspective here, having had this situation happen to me, where I had a paper travelcard which was being rejected by the gates at Putney Town, and no staff were around, and having actually pushed the emergency button mentioned above (I had been advised this was the correct course of action by someone who works for TfL when I asked after this happened before).

I waited about 5 minutes before pressing it, and as no one had appeared considered the gateline to have been left closed and unmanned. As expected an alarm went off and the gates opened. I waited a few more minutes as thought it would be best to let them know there wasn’t a big emergency, but no one ever appeared, no idea what they were up to. When I came back that afternoon it was manned again.

 

[tram21]

At Woolwich Arsenal, the only DLR only station with barriers, a few months ago I got to the station and no staff were around at all, and there was no accessible help point either which I could use. I had an expired Zip Oyster card (that were allowed to be used at the end of last year due to the cyber attack) which didn't work on gates, needing staff to let you through. In hindsight, I probably should have bought a ticket and claimed it back, but at the time my friend and I (who had a paper ticket which had been demagnitised) just pushed through the wide-gate which I felt bad about but with no staff manning the gate, there was little other choice (other than buy a new ticket...)