Is withdrawal of PF possible?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Katfish77

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2016
Messages
6
Long story short, I have had one previous penalty fare notice with SW trains however this was paid on the spot, first question is is this on record with them? I don't particularly remember why but it may have been for staying an extra stop by mistake which was not in the oyster zone.

I had got the train to **** and received a penalty fare notice after being told that a railcard must be on person when travelling, I phoned the railcard office in front of the guard and it was confirmed i had a rail card however i was still issued a penalty fare notice.

As shown from my post, I do buy train tickets, I just did not know the ins and outs, I am not disputing this is a penalty fare.

I went to ** station from ***** and my girlfriend who had bought the tickets as shown on her card statement assumed I had my rail card on me. I got to **** station and realised that my rail card is still at my nans and as I was on holiday from the 10th I had not went to retrieve it. I was issued a penalty fare notice again, he took my details and phoned them and there was no issues however when he told me about appeal process I had said Yes I know about appeals process, its pointless. He then was inquisitive as to how I knew about the appeals process in which I said 'appeals are useless they never work', just to get through the formality quickly and head out the station. Can the Penalty fare be withdrawn and changed to a prosecution even though I genuinely have not travelled without intent to avoid paying? Also the penalty fare has not been recognised on the system I have paid it.

Note the penalty fare on april *** I had phoned there has been no record of this in their system and I have lost the notice, what is the best way to go about paying this and is there a chance I will get prosecuted even if I have made attempt to pay. If these penalty fares are not on their system is there a chance they are doing prosecution? Not once however was a written statement taken from me in both situations or a 'G11' as I've read online issued.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,330
Location
The back cab
I'm going to be fairly blunt with you, as you don't seem to be learning a valuable lesson from these experiences. If you're travelling by train with a railcard discounted ticket then you MUST carry your railcard - nothing else will suffice. It's part of the T&Cs you agreed to when you got it. I'd reccomended keeping it in your wallet, then you won't forget it.

With that but over, you've been lucky to only receive a penalty fare and not be reported for prosecution. It would be unusual for a PF to be withdrawn, but I'm not sure it's unheard of. I'd contact them again and attempt to establish what is happening - it may be a backlog that has delayed your notice being processed.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
12,267
Location
0036
Yes, SWT can cancel the PF (and refund it if paid) and go down the prosecution route, if it wishes.

You really, really need to tighten up here before you wind up in court. If you don't have your Railcard with you, pay the full fare. The conditions which you chose to agree to when you purchased the Railcard and accepted by signing the Railcard state that you must carry it with you when using a discounted ticket. End of.
 

Katfish77

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2016
Messages
6
Yes, SWT can cancel the PF (and refund it if paid) and go down the prosecution route, if it wishes.

You really, really need to tighten up here before you wind up in court. If you don't have your Railcard with you, pay the full fare. The conditions which you chose to agree to when you purchased the Railcard and accepted by signing the Railcard state that you must carry it with you when using a discounted ticket. End of.


How likely is it that it will be withdrawn as it was a genuine mistake, as genuine mistakes can happen twice. Silly of me but I had not even purchased the ticket my girlfriend had bought it for me
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
PF's are intended to deal with genuine mistakes. Please don't try and put the responsibility for this on to your girlfriend. It's your responsibility to carry your own railcard with you, and it's your responsibility to make sure that you have the right ticket. You could and should have told your girlfriend that you didn't have your railcard with you so you need a full fare ticket.
 

Katfish77

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2016
Messages
6
PF's are intended to deal with genuine mistakes. Please don't try and put the responsibility for this on to your girlfriend. It's your responsibility to carry your own railcard with you, and it's your responsibility to make sure that you have the right ticket. You could and should have told your girlfriend that you didn't have your railcard with you so you need a full fare ticket.

The guard thought it was a genuine mistake and it really was. I always buy tickets and a replacement railcard for me is on the way. I just phoned IRCAS and the woman said if PF has been issued it can't be escalated if paid which is what I've done and paid both fines. I will never be doing this again as it has put me through so much stress.
My girlfriend hadn't seen me in 2 weeks and assumed I had my railcard, I put the ticket in at norbiton and then at Waterloo it was not working as they obviously did something at the gates. It was a mistake it won't be happening again after the ordeal. If the PF's are paid then I should be okay? One more incident and I am gone, I know this. Thanks for advice people
 

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,330
Location
The back cab
How likely is it that it will be withdrawn as it was a genuine mistake, as genuine mistakes can happen twice. Silly of me but I had not even purchased the ticket my girlfriend had bought it for me

We can't tell you how likely it will be, but it's a possibility. This is entirely down to SWT and you need to chase up the PF with them and find out if you do need to settle it.

As Greenback says, you can't pass on blame to anyone but yourself.
 

Katfish77

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2016
Messages
6
The blame sorely lies with me as I am responsible for myself however there was aggrieved factors and a mistake made on my part. There was no intent to defraud anyone which is why I think the PF was issued and I was apologetic to the guard. Both have been paid and IRCAS said case is closed? So I should be good? In future I will just have it on me and buy my own tickets. Lesson learnt
 

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,330
Location
The back cab
The blame sorely lies with me as I am responsible for myself however there was aggrieved factors and a mistake made on my part. There was no intent to defraud anyone which is why I think the PF was issued and I was apologetic to the guard. Both have been paid and IRCAS said case is closed? So I should be good? In future I will just have it on me and buy my own tickets. Lesson learnt

I think there has been a misunderstanding here, if you've paid the most recent case then the matter is closed and the PF cannot be withdrawn. Glad you've learned your lesson.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
I think that there is a good chance that you are in the clear now. That's why you need to make sure that you don't get into trouble again. Take responsibility for yourself and don't put yourself in this situation again because things will probably escalate if there is a next time.
 

Katfish77

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2016
Messages
6
I think there has been a misunderstanding here, if you've paid the most recent case then the matter is closed and the PF cannot be withdrawn. Glad you've learned your lesson.

I have had a sleepless night over it and thanks for clarification. Both cases have they been paid however the guard on my way out was asking me how I knew about appeals processes in a tone which made me think he might report me. If both cases of PF are closed there is 0 chance of escalation? IRCAS said both cases are closed and there is no chance but some of you guys probably know more. Can they legally double cross me by closing a case
Of PF and then prosecuting or is that possibility over now that both have been paid
Thank you so much. My intentions were clean and even if prosecuted I know that I can prove they were clean it was a lapse of judgement which I put my hands up
 

trentside

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
14 Aug 2010
Messages
3,330
Location
The back cab
I have had a sleepless night over it and thanks for clarification. Both cases have they been paid however the guard on my way out was asking me how I knew about appeals processes in a tone which made me think he might report me. If both cases of PF are closed there is 0 chance of escalation? IRCAS said both cases are closed and there is no chance but some of you guys probably know more. Can they legally double cross me by closing a case
Of PF and then prosecuting or is that possibility over now that both have been paid
Thank you so much. My intentions were clean and even if prosecuted I know that I can prove they were clean it was a lapse of judgement which I put my hands up

If the PFs have been paid, then the matter is closed. I've not heard of a person being reported for prosecution after they're paid a PF - though someone else will no doubt be able to advise on the legal situation.

You would've (most likely) been successfully prosecuted had the matter proceeded. Whatever you think you can prove, or whatever your intent was. If you'd wanted to avoid court and out of court settlement would likely have been a few hundred pounds, with a fine from any court action significantly more. Think about this, and then make sure you've always got your railcard with you in future.
 
Last edited:

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,405
Location
Redcar
The OP has their answer. If they require further assistance please feel free to contact a member of the Staff Team and we will look to reopen this thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top