Ishihara Test Failure Medical

[scott12]

Hi,

Wondered if anybody had this problem or knows if I can take further for a different test etc? Or am I wasting my time.

Basically, with the announcement of ticket office closures, my job was under threat, so I applied for a conductor role which I was given a start date for. I had a medical recently which I found out I had a very minor colour deficiency. I could see about 8 different numbers in the Ishihara colour vision test, but some of the plates I couldn’t see a thing. Everything else I passed. The person doing my medical was surprised I could see some, yet others I couldn’t and asked me to name different colours all around the room, like what colour was my shirt, what colour is this pen etc. which I could easily identify. I was told it’s classed as a fail on the Ishihara testing when they spoke to the ‘Rail Doctor’?

I noticed RMT sent an article out last year around August 2022 stating ‘the testing can be seen as detrimental to some of our members’

I’m obviously very disappointed as now I can’t do anything safety critical but feel like it’s a bit discriminatory that I can’t pass that test but can see colours and can drive a car and see traffic light colours etc. but I just can’t see a few numbers in the Ishihara test.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Samzino]

I can't remember if on the fourm someone mentioned an alternative colour test via an opticians and then send the results of that to the occupational doctor for the TOC.

 

[Ducatist4]

It would only be discrimination if colour blindness was classed as a disability and unfortunately it isn't.

 

[skyhigh]

It would only be discrimination if colour blindness was classed as a disability and unfortunately it isn't.

Even then, only "reasonable adjustments" would need to be made.

 

[Ducatist4]

that's correct.

 

[Snow1964]

You might be able to distinguish major colour differences, but it is a safety test, and if you couldn't see a person wearing clothes similar colour to platform surface colour or background further along train, then I can see the problem.

 

[AverageJoe]

You might be able to distinguish major colour differences, but it is a safety test, and if you couldn't see a person wearing clothes similar colour to platform surface colour or background further along train, then I can see the problem.

But it could also be said what if there is a person wearing the exact same colour clothing as the platform surface or background further along the train, then a person with perfect colour vision will not notice them.

I would have imagine the colour blindness test is to make sure we can clearly identify line side signs, colours, signal aspects and in cab lights, cab passes etc.

 

[Marton]

Ishihara is a screening test not a diagnostic one.

I don’t know what the regulations for rail say, but for aviation and seafaring the definitive tests are more complex and are based on light sources, traditionally for seafarers a Lantern Test, but now one based on a computer array at a specialised centre.

I have known a small number of people who have failed ishihara and passed. In my view ishihara is not fair.

One for your union perhaps?

 

[Milink]

Go to an opticians and retake the test.

 

[Ducatist4]

We have done this to death several times before. The general feeling is fail Ishihara and thats game over.

 

[EZJ]

Unfortunately as it stands currently if you fail the ishihara then you will not be progressed for a safety critical role on the railway. The union would not be able to do anything.

 

[1Q18]

It would only be discrimination if colour blindness was classed as a disability and unfortunately it isn't.

That's not how the Equality Act 2010 works, there's not a definitive list of legally-protected disabilities. It's not the same as, for instance, being able to claim for disability benefit or obtain a blue badge, the Equality Act is far broader. However, it is lawful to for an employer to discriminate based on a protected characteristic when it is a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim', such as for example ensuring a prospective train driver can read signals correctly.

FWIW I have defective colour vision, but it's hardly noticeable in everyday life, I can read traffic lights perfectly well and I was unaware that I had any issue at all until I first failed an Ishihara test. But if sometimes I'm standing trackside and there's a colour light signal some distance off down the track, I can struggle to read it. I completely understand why it may never have occurred to the OP that they might have defective colour vision.

Unfortunately as it stands currently if you fail the ishihara then you will not be progressed for a safety critical role on the railway. The union would not be able to do anything.

This isn't correct. There are safety-critical roles on the railway open to people with defective colour vision, but obviously some roles (driver being one) and competences are off limits. I have defective colour vision, my PTS card has a blue dot to denote this, but I am very much safety-critical.

 

[bluegoblin7]

This isn't correct. There are safety-critical roles on the railway open to people with defective colour vision, but obviously some roles (driver being one) and competences are off limits. I have defective colour vision, my PTS card has a blue dot to denote this, but I am very much safety-critical.

Indeed it is also worth bearing in mind that, with the rollout of in-cab signalling, London Underground have been able to successfully recruit and retain drivers on the Jubilee and Northern lines with colour deficient vision.

I am also aware of a couple of depot drivers on the mainline with colour deficiency, and a couple of signal operators on London Underground.

As has been touched on, albeit perhaps not in as many words, there are a number of different varieties of colour deficiency, and not all of them should be barriers to safety critical work. You may need a more in-depth test to the Ishihara, which is relatively straightforward and catch-all, although it does also seem to depend on the pragmatism of managers involved.

1Q18 is spot on with their summary of the EA2010, and “the Unions” certainly would fight for someone being blocked where reasonable adjustments haven’t at least been considered (although this is harder for those yet to join the industry, granted).

 

[Marton]

Unfortunately as it stands currently if you fail the ishihara then you will not be progressed for a safety critical role on the railway. The union would not be able to do anything.

“As it stands currently”. That’s the point.

Ishihara is not diagnostic. If air and sea have proper tests why not rail?

To me getting proper and fair good practice is a significant role of a union.

 

[ComUtoR]

Ishihara is not diagnostic

I think you need to clarify this. I've certainly read that it is a diagnostic test

. If air and sea have proper tests why not rail?

The Ishihara is probably the most widely used test for colour blindness. I am unsure why you don't consider it a 'proper' test.

Colour vision guidance material GM | Civil Aviation Authority

Implementing Rules (IRs), Acceptable Means of Compliance (AMCs) and Guidance Material (GM) on colour vision

www.caa.co.uk

(b) Examination and assessment

(1) Applicants shall be subjected to the Ishihara test for the initial issue of a medical certificate. Applicants who pass that test may be assessed as fit.

(2) For a class 1 medical certificate:

(i) Applicants who do not pass the Ishihara test shall be referred to the medical assessor of the licensing authority and shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.

To me getting proper and fair good practice is a significant role of a union.

The Ishihara is good practice and fair. Everyone is tested and must meet the same standard. It's also industry standard and used worldwide across multiple sectors.

The Lantern test isn't as accurate and allows people to pass at a higher rate.

 

[Eloise]

My other half is colour blind and he would thus fail the medical. He has done cab rides and pointed out signals to drivers no problem. Where it becomes a problem is where you are doing 125mph on the Down Fast and the signal changes from green to red and you miss it as you can't distinguish the change and carry on at line speed. For my other half it's game over for driving so he did something else instead. There's no way he could fudge or scrape through the test and if he could he couldn't live with himself if he knew he was colour blind and that caused him to miss something. Likewise I wouldn't want to board a train being driven by someone who thinks they can distinguish colours but when it comes to it they really can't.

Driving a car is different as the speeds are generally different and the red, amber and green lights are always in the same place. The yellow is also a help, on its own so stop, and red and yellow together are a help to signify start to go. In-cab signalling may help longer term but whilst it's red and green lineside it will continue to be a no.

Also I'd ask what "reasonable adjustments" could be made for this?

 

[43066]

“As it stands currently”. That’s the point.

Ishihara is not diagnostic. If air and sea have proper tests why not rail?

To me getting proper and fair good practice is a significant role of a union.

It’s not particularly likely to change, though. So for people in the OP’s position it’s probably wise to operate on that basis and seek out appropriate roles, as mentioned above.

 

[Kernow_Celtic]

I took the ishihara for a none safety critical role and narrowly failed it. I took it again for a safety critical role a year later, and passed it. The key was the first time I took it I was a little confused by it, so I did my research and made sure I understood it better to take it second time. Never had a problem with it since.

 

[Supercoss]

For signalling grades, specific to staff moving from mechanical boxes or "NX" boxes onto computer based vdu systems the following test is widely used

https://www.colorlitelens.com/lantern-test

gives you a result at the end
also related to original post -

Ishihara Test

Ishihara color blind test is the most well known color blindness test.

www.colorlitelens.com

 

[The Puddock]

For signalling grades, specific to staff moving from mechanical boxes or "NX" boxes onto computer based vdu systems the following test is widely used

https://www.colorlitelens.com/lantern-test

gives you a result at the end

Is it ‘widely used’? In 20+ years in Ops I have never heard of a signaller being required to sit a lantern test.

We’ve had several signallers transfer to VDU workstations recently and none of them have had to take any colour vision testing beyond the usual Ishihara plates at their initial and recurring medicals. There was no medical input at all either before or after the internal job offers. Is this a new thing since occupational health has been brought in house last month? Could it be area specific?

 

[Firestarter]

It’s not particularly likely to change, though. So for people in the OP’s position it’s probably wise to operate on that basis and seek out appropriate roles, as mentioned above.

It’s not particularly likely to change, though. So for people in the OP’s position it’s probably wise to operate on that basis and seek out appropriate roles, as mentioned above.

According to the RSSB website and Right Track magazine issue 45, new medical standards are currently be revised and will be published in March 2025

1. Eye level. The Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations 2010 (TDLCR) lets doctors issue a derogation as follows: ‘maximum corrective lenses: hypermetropia + 5/myopia -8 (exemptions may be authorised in exceptional cases and after having obtained the opinion of an eye specialist; the recognised doctor then takes the decision)’.

To help doctors, we will provide guidance on a number of things, including how and when a doctor may seek an opinion from a specialist eye doctor, and how to assess train drivers to decide if an exemption is suitable.

2. Colour level. The TDLCR requires train drivers to have normal colour vision tested using a recognised test. Schedule 1 suggests the use of the Ishihara test (the one with the coloured dots). However, it is not mandated. The regulations also mention the use of ‘another recognised test if required’. This can be interpreted in various ways, but in other industries it’s common practice to do a secondary test if someone doesn’t pass the initial screening test. This approach can be adopted in the rail industry.


3. Vision on. New research is being worked on to define the minimum thresholds of colour vision for safety-critical railway staff. The exact timescales of the research aren’t confirmed, but we expect the results to be published during the summer of 2024.

 

[43066]

According to the RSSB website and Right Track magazine issue 45, new medical standards are currently be revised and will be published in March 2025

1. Eye level. The Train Driving Licences and Certificates Regulations 2010 (TDLCR) lets doctors issue a derogation as follows: ‘maximum corrective lenses: hypermetropia + 5/myopia -8 (exemptions may be authorised in exceptional cases and after having obtained the opinion of an eye specialist; the recognised doctor then takes the decision)’.

To help doctors, we will provide guidance on a number of things, including how and when a doctor may seek an opinion from a specialist eye doctor, and how to assess train drivers to decide if an exemption is suitable.

2. Colour level. The TDLCR requires train drivers to have normal colour vision tested using a recognised test. Schedule 1 suggests the use of the Ishihara test (the one with the coloured dots). However, it is not mandated. The regulations also mention the use of ‘another recognised test if required’. This can be interpreted in various ways, but in other industries it’s common practice to do a secondary test if someone doesn’t pass the initial screening test. This approach can be adopted in the rail industry.


3. Vision on. New research is being worked on to define the minimum thresholds of colour vision for safety-critical railway staff. The exact timescales of the research aren’t confirmed, but we expect the results to be published during the summer of 2024.

Thanks. Do you have a link you can quote from (as per forum rules)?

From what has been written above, it sounds potentially positive, but no suggestion of any imminent change, so I’m not sure my earlier advice would change.

The issue fundamentally is that the railway is enormously safety conscious, and changing the current approach will cost a lot of money. There is no shortage of applicants for roles who can pass Ishihara, so it’s unclear where the driver to spend a lot of money changing the tests is going to come from.

 

[Randomer]

The Ishihara is good practice and fair. Everyone is tested and must meet the same standard. It's also industry standard and used worldwide across multiple sectors.

The Lantern test isn't as accurate and allows people to pass at a higher rate.

Ishihara is a screening test and isn't the deciding factor for being for example a ATPL qualified commercial pilot in the UK under Civil Aviation Authority rules or the EU under European Aviation Safety Authority rules. The CAA have been using the CAD (also known as the City University Test) since 2009 and arguably since TfL adopted it for London Underground drivers in 2013 (.pdf) (on all lines not just those with ATO) its not a standard for UK railways. The above link is too big to reproduce in total but to quote the relevant section:

Thanks to technology developed by the Applied Vision Research Centre at City University London, fit-for-work decisions can now be reliable and fair. I visited Transport for London (TfL), where the technology has been introduced to screen the vision of its 3,500 train drivers.

The CAA managed to define a level of colour vision required (to see approach lights that change colour depending on whether you are on glide path or not) it shouldn't be outside the realms of possibility for the ORR to do so after accepting TfL using alternative tests.

I think since last time I've commented on this the RMT have also put out a Circular supporting a move towards the use of Ishihara as a screening tool and more accurate testing to define levels of colour deficiency. To quote the relevant section:

The General Secretary is instructed to raise this matter with the regulatory authorities and rail employers without delay and to seek resolution on it. We cannot have some members being treated less favourably than others; if one sector we have recognition in can do something to deal with this, then surely the others can. As there are degrees of colour blindness, a “one size fits all” approach is inappropriate.

The General Secretary is further instructed to place any responses received before this NEC.

Relevant Branches and Regional Councils to be informed.

 

[43066]

Ishihara is a screening test and isn't the deciding factor for being for example a ATPL qualified commercial pilot in the UK under Civil Aviation Authority rules or the EU under European Aviation Safety Authority rules.

Airline pilots don’t need to interpret colour light railway signals as part of their role, so I’m not sure how relevant this is.

The CAA managed to define a level of colour vision required (to see approach lights that change colour depending on whether you are on glide path or not)

That is presumably referring to PAPIs (precision approach path indicators), which go from red to white. Again, not relevant to railway signals.

I think since last time I've commented on this the RMT have also put out a Circular supporting a move towards the use of Ishihara as a screening tool and more accurate testing to define levels of colour deficiency. To quote the relevant section:

If something can be cheaply and easily be developed, then great. But the point I made in #22 will still count against this.

 

[ComUtoR]

According to the RSSB website and Right Track magazine issue 45, new medical standards are currently be revised and will be published in March 2025

1. Eye level.

2. Colour level.

Both of those are already in place. As posted in another thread and I can also confirm a Trainee at my TOC are outside the vision standard but got a derogation based on a 3rd party assessment.

The Ishihara has never been mandated and TOCs have always been able to use an alternative. I wouldn't even say it's the TOCs choice. The medical is usually done by an outside agency. We currently use Medigold for all our medicals. If they decided to check colour vision using a different test, they would be more than within their rights to do so.

3. Vision on. New research is being worked on to define the minimum thresholds of colour vision for safety-critical railway staff. The exact timescales of the research aren’t confirmed, but we expect the results to be published during the summer of 2024.

This is an interesting change but might be a simple as stating the number of plates that need to be passed.

Medical standards do change. A prime example is for Hearing Aids and Lazer.Eye Surgery. Both are now permitted, where previously they weren't.

Whatever happens. You will still be required to pass whatever tests they decide and to whatever standard is required.

 

[Firestarter]

Thanks. Do you have a link you can quote from (as per forum rules)?

From what has been written above, it sounds potentially positive, but no suggestion of any imminent change, so I’m not sure my earlier advice would change.

The issue fundamentally is that the railway is enormously safety conscious, and changing the current approach will cost a lot of money. There is no shortage of applicants for roles who can pass Ishihara, so it’s unclear where the driver to spend a lot of money changing the tests is going to come from.

Right Track

Our quarterly Right Track magazine is designed for the people on the operational front line. It captures, shares and promotes safety learning and initiatives from across the industry. With feature articles on everything rail safety related, it’s an important part of your safety briefing toolkit.

www.rssb.co.uk

issue 45

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Isn't the Ishihara a (screening) test for red/green blindness?