Island Line Class 484 Reliability

[meld3]

* - Or, as recently, by a large but placid school group who were being disorganised by one of the masters constantly running about rearranging things and holding up the queue. We ended up fifteen plus late at the Pier Head from a ten late arrival at Portsmouth.

You Sir, are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my five shillings!

 

[Invincible]

Scratching my head.

It says
3 out of service,
2 of which are subject to brake testing,
leaves only 1 unit in service.
But there are five units so three must be in service.

So I would not read to much into that quoted piece.

The half hour timetable has been been restored, on RTT says 004 and 005, so how many trains are now working with new wheels sets and tested brakes?

 

[MotCO]

Aside from the wheel issues, are the 484s reasonably reliable?

 

[david1212]

.... The advantage of the D78s was not that they're lower or narrower than most mainline stock but that they're shorter. Being available second hand and having DC traction no doubt helped as well.

While they had DC pickup Vivarail replaced the motors and controllers. On paper more reliable, less maintenance and greater efficiency as in less energy loss. The downside is the software. I recall during early testing the software had to be changed then drivers told they had to operate the controller in a specific way. If the original motors and controllers had been retained then a pile of spares put into the stores while more maintenance on the DC components staff would have basic familiarity from the 1938 stock.

My opinion is that the main problem is that the turn-round times at each end are now longer than before and effectively mean that there is virtually no recovery time. If a train is delayed the delay can only be caught up by the odd half-minute here and there: the old units allowed a quick turn-round at each terminal which could save a couple of minutes or so each time. Now you get a minute or so, except with the short turn-round at Esplanade, when you can catch up a bit more.

I think that's pretty much what happens, however the Shanklin to Ryde Pier Head train has 4 minute turnarounds at each end.
To fit in with it at the passing place, the other one isn't exactly half-hour opposite, and can only go as far as Esplanade, having a 4 minute turnaround there. It has a longer, 10 minute turnaround at Shanklin.

In short, there isn't time for the second train to go to Pier Head and get back to the passing place in time. It has to terminate short at Esplanade.

It all looks an ill thought out mess to this onlooker I'm afraid.

Had the existing motors and controllers been retained the minimum turn-around time, so long as not increased as a result of other software that did not exist as bought from LT, ought to have been similar to the 1938 stock.
Regarding the running time Brading <> Ryde Pier Head if modelling of this was based on the LT performance but the required driving style with the new motors and controllers has made the Brading <> Ryde Esplanade section say a minute longer so two minutes on a circuit it would add to not being able to reliably run Brading > Ryde Pier Head > Brading in 30 minutes resulting in the current timetable.

Only time will tell how reliable the new motors and controllers turn out to be.

 

[Benjy3000]

How much impact are the extremely slow doors having on timekeeping? Not sure why they weren't kept at the same speed they were on the District Line days.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

How much impact are the extremely slow doors having on timekeeping? Not sure why they weren't kept at the same speed they were on the District Line days.

Rode the D78 stock often, Richmond branch, and Hammersmith. Not always helpful trying to remember things from so long ago, but my abiding memory is that the doors were slow to start opening, and one always felt the urge to give them a hand as soon as possible. Have no first hand knowledge of the present situation on the Island I should add.

 

[bramling]

How much impact are the extremely slow doors having on timekeeping? Not sure why they weren't kept at the same speed they were on the District Line days.

Is there any scope for speeding up the journey in terms of line speed improvements? Last time I was there a number of TSRs were in place which naturally wouldn’t be helping.

 

[Deepgreen]

GWR have bought them and they are now at Reading I believe. It may well help that both are FirstGroup TOCs.

Have GWR actually bought them outright or are they just leasing them from one of the ROSCOs?

It does beg the question - can ANY stock these days simply be transferred/modified without problems occurring? It seems to be virtually impossible to re-purpose stock without encountering significant problems.

 

[CarrotPie]

Have GWR actually bought them outright or are they just leasing them from one of the ROSCOs?

They've bought them outright, but that's a topic for that thread, not this one.

 

[Deepgreen]

They've bought them outright, but that's a topic for that thread, not this one.

Thanks, and agreed.

 

[cav1975]

Have GWR actually bought them outright or are they just leasing them from one of the ROSCOs?

It does beg the question - can ANY stock these days simply be transferred/modified without problems occurring? It seems to be virtually impossible to re-purpose stock without encountering significant problems.

I read that GWR had bought them as a job lot from Vivarail’s liquidator.

 

[Chris125]

There is still a loop at Sandown. It is pneumatic points, I think.

IIRC the loop at Sandown was modernised during the upgrade, presumably to standardise with the new equipment controlling Brading.

 

[Invincible]

I read that GWR had bought them as a job lot from Vivarail’s liquidator.

Guess when Porterbrook took over Long Marsden they are now charging GWR a rent for storing the old unconverted D78 units, with a view to perhaps getting involved with converting more to battery powered 230s if the FAST charge project works using the former Vivarail workshops at Long Marsden?
GWR has access to more spare parts from the D78s which could also be used for the Island Line and TfW.

 

[D365]

... with a view to perhaps getting involved with converting more to battery powered 230s if the FAST charge project works using the former Vivarail workshops at Long Marsden?

Vivarail cleared their former "Long Marston" shed and offices when they moved to Kineton Road. I doubt that doubt GWR (the ex Vivarail team specifically) would be interested in moving back in.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Sorry. Here's a link to the story. Hope that works. I'm a frustrated Island Line passenger - not a techie!
https://iwobserver.co.uk/5-trains-have-become-4-and-swr-are-buying-wheels-from-a-scrapyard/

Is there any scope for speeding up the journey in terms of line speed improvements? Last time I was there a number of TSRs were in place which naturally wouldn’t be helping.

The following quote from the following article indicates that replacing the track would fix the problems of excessive wear and tear on the wheels. Replacing the track would also enable the line speed to be improved. Enabling the trains to run at 60 mph instead of 45 mph on the two and a half mile single track section between Smallbrook Junction and Brading would take a minute off the travel time between Brading and Ryde Pier Head and this would enable the originally proposed 30 minute interval timetable Ryde Pier Head to and from Shanklin passing at Brading. The speed restriction in place last year at the Pig Leg Level Crossing between Ryde St Johns Road and Smallbrook Junction has been lifted as a result of the new lights being installed at the level crossing.

5 trains have become 4 – and SWR are buying wheels from a scrapyard!

The Island’s transport troubles extend beyond the ferry fiascos that have dominated recent headlines. The much-vaunted ‘new’ Class 484 Island Line trains, which only entered service in November 2021 promising a fresh start, find themselves on

iwobserver.co.uk

The 484’s wheel woes are believed to be excessive ‘hollow wheel wear’, caused by problems with the track rather than the wheels themselves. It is primarily caused by a mismatch between the track and the wheels made worse by poor track conditions. The heavily-redacted FOIA documents reveal a “long-term” plan to buy new wheels.

Also, who in the right mind of the timetable people, decided to stop half of the trains at Ryde Esplanade. It's just inconvenient, what's so expensive of making the train go 400m across the Pier. It's not the Class 484 trains, but whoever created this new timetable needs to have a rethink.

The only way to get a timetable of two trains an hour between Ryde and Shanklin with the trains passing each other using the new loop at Brading is to terminate every alternate train at Ryde Esplanade instead of Ryde Pier Head. It takes around a minute too long to get from Brading to Ryde Pier Head with a four minute turn around at Ryde Pier Head. The trains then pass at Brading at 32 minute and 28 minute intervals. To fix this the time interval between the trains departing Brading and arriving at Ryde Pier Head needs to be reduced by a minute. I do not understand why the line speed was not increased between Brading and Smallbrook Junction as part of the renewal work in 2021 as it should have been obvious that the proposed 30 minute interval timetable Ryde Pier Head to and from Shanklin with trains passing at Brading would not work without this line speed increase.

BBC report dated yesterday

Broken-down train halts Isle of Wight rail services

Buses are brought in to take passengers between Ryde Pier Head and Ryde Esplanade.

www.bbc.co.uk

Island Line currently operates one service an hour in each direction between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin, using a single train.
The train firm bought five two-carriage trains from Vivarail, a company which collapsed shortly afterwards.
Two of the five trains are out of service long-term, having failed because of flood damage.
The remaining three trains have been affected by excessive wear to the wheels.
This led to Island Line reducing the timetable by half, from two trains an hour to one.
South Western Railway hoped to reinstate a second train for the peak summer season, but it has not confirmed this will happen.