Isn't it time we converted some lightly used railways into light rail or busways?

[PacerTrain142]

So for a while now I've thought that it would be a good idea for some lightly used lines to be converted to a light rail system, like the Tyne and Wear Metro, the Manchester Metrolink or maybe even a busway.

There was a thread made recently "Have trains had thier day?" where someone suggested that it would be better to simply convert all trainlines into express busways. However, others were quick to point out that it just wouldn't work for busy/express routes, for example London to Brighton or the East Coast Main Line.

Have Trains had their day?

This could sound antagonistic but it’s absolutely not meant to be, Have Trains had their day? I continuously have difficult journeys on the rail network, I see a complex system that is difficult to manage and it seems running them for profit just hasn’t worked? I could be wrong as I am far from...

www.railforums.co.uk

However, for smaller, quieter routes, I think it would be a great idea to convert them to light rail or maybe even a busway. Routes like Preston to Blackpool South/Ormskirk/Colne and Darlington to Bishop Auckland, which until recently, were mostly operated by Class 142 Pacer Trains, which were essentially two Leyland National single decker buses strapped together.

As well as saving money, there are other potential benefits of this idea. The trains on the lines mentioned above are not very frequent, due to fairly low usage and long sections of single track. You could increase the frequency on these routes with a bus or tram to half hourly (or even quarter hourly) which would be less viable with heavy rail. I think for routes like this, I don’t think it would be any slower either due to the fairly low speed limits and the slow acceleration of the diesel sprinter trains that operate these routes. If anything, it might actually be a bit quicker, due to the faster acceleration and better braking ability of buses and trams. Buses can go faster round curves too, whereas trains can only safely go round tight curves at 10-20 mph.

They converted the Oldham Loop in Manchester from heavy rail into a tramway about 15 years ago and it was a big success (having previously been operated by pacer trains with a lot of squealing and bouncing) so I don’t see why other routes can’t do the same.

The farily low speed limits, fairly small distance between stations and the fairly low passenger numbers makes these routes excellent candidates for conversion to busways or light rail.

Also, if the Skipton to Colne line were to be reopened as a tramway or busway, it would provide excellent connections between East Lancashire and West Yorkshire, and it would be a lot cheaper than heavy rail. I bet it would get a lot of usage too.

I have attached a picture of a map I made of how it would work in Lancashire. I added a few extra fictional stations to my local area. I also added a Tyne and Wear Metro style stage fares system.

 

[The Planner]

However, for smaller, quieter routes, I think it would be a great idea to convert them to light rail or maybe even a busway. Routes like Preston to Blackpool South/Ormskirk/Colne and Darlington to Bishop Auckland, which until recently, were mostly operated by Class 142 Pacer Trains, which were essentially two Leyland National single decker buses strapped together.

As well as saving money, there are other potential benefits of this idea. The trains on the lines mentioned above are not very frequent, due to fairly low usage and long sections of single track. You could increase the frequency on these routes with a bus or tram to half hourly (or even quarter hourly) which would be less viable with heavy rail. I think for routes like this, I don’t think it would be any slower either due to the fairly low speed limits and the slow acceleration of the diesel sprinter trains that operate these routes. If anything, it might actually be a bit quicker, due to the faster acceleration and better braking ability of buses and trams. Buses can go faster round curves too, whereas trains can only safely go round tight curves at 10-20 mph.

They converted the Oldham Loop in Manchester from heavy rail into a tramway about 15 years ago and it was a big success (having previously been operated by pacer trains with a lot of squealing and bouncing) so I don’t see why other routes can’t do the same.

The farily low speed limits, fairly small distance between stations and the fairly low passenger numbers makes these routes excellent candidates for conversion to busways or light rail.

Also, if the Skipton to Colne line were to be reopened as a tramway or busway, it would provide excellent connections between East Lancashire and West Yorkshire, and it would be a lot cheaper than heavy rail. I bet it would get a lot of usage too.

I have attached a picture of a map I made of how it would work in Lancashire. I added a few extra fictional stations to my local area. I also added a Tyne and Wear Metro style stage fares system.

Are you genuinely suggesting the Blackburn line becomes light rail? Be very careful saying it will save money, over what time period as you need to include the capital cost of conversion.

 

[PacerTrain142]

Are you genuinely suggesting the Blackburn line becomes light rail? Be very careful saying it will save money, over what time period as you need to include the capital cost of conversion.

Mostly yes. However, there is a Blackpool North to York semi-express service which uses it which would be better running as a heavy rail service, as it provides a fast link between Lancashire and Yorkshire. So I think running the line as a mix of heavy rail and light rail (like parts of the Tyne and Wear Metro does) would be best.

 

[Bevan Price]

One problem about misguided busways is what happens when buses leave the former railway alignment and have to join normal town or city roads. The Leigh busway is a typical example. Even the short section at the Leigh end can be a traffic nightmare, but the passage through Salford and Manchester centre roads is painfully slow. A train from Leigh to Manchester would probably take about 20 -25 minutes; you can more than double that journey time most days using the bus via the busway.

 

[biggerisbetter]

Rather than lightly use light rail lines being converted, it should be ‘medium’ use lines with growth potential that should be converted to light rail that if converted would also release paths into congested stations and where there is significant inner city growth potential created through increased frequencies and more stops but with overall journey times made no worse for existing users as a result of increased frequencies and better city centre penetration. Wigan to Manchester via Atherton, Manchester to Glossop, Manchester to Rose Hill Marple, Leeds to Knottingley, Leeds to Harrogate etc. could fall within this category.

 

[Arkeeos]

That conversion requires investment, which raises the question of could that investment be better put into improving the rail service rather than changing it.

 

[6Gman]

Class 142 Pacer Trains, which were essentially two Leyland National single decker buses strapped together.

They really weren't.

 

[birchesgreen]

Some branch lines perhaps, though you couldn't convert lightly used passenger lines if the rails are shared with other services (not easily anyway). But converting to light rail will cost money, a lot more than keeping a branch line staggering along with minimal upkeep and maintenance and cascaded rolling stock.

 

[geoffk]

Perhaps we should ask why the proposals to convert the Abbey Line (Watford Jn - St.Albans) and the Island Line to light rail fell by the wayside. Both are self-contained lines with closely-spaced stations and one had obsolete rolling stock which required replacement.

 

[AlastairFraser]

So for a while now I've thought that it would be a good idea for some lightly used lines to be converted to a light rail system, like the Tyne and Wear Metro, the Manchester Metrolink or maybe even a busway.

There was a thread made recently "Have trains had thier day?" where someone suggested that it would be better to simply convert all trainlines into express busways. However, others were quick to point out that it just wouldn't work for busy/express routes, for example London to Brighton or the East Coast Main Line.

Have Trains had their day?

This could sound antagonistic but it’s absolutely not meant to be, Have Trains had their day? I continuously have difficult journeys on the rail network, I see a complex system that is difficult to manage and it seems running them for profit just hasn’t worked? I could be wrong as I am far from...

www.railforums.co.uk

However, for smaller, quieter routes, I think it would be a great idea to convert them to light rail or maybe even a busway. Routes like Preston to Blackpool South/Ormskirk/Colne and Darlington to Bishop Auckland, which until recently, were mostly operated by Class 142 Pacer Trains, which were essentially two Leyland National single decker buses strapped together.

As well as saving money, there are other potential benefits of this idea. The trains on the lines mentioned above are not very frequent, due to fairly low usage and long sections of single track. You could increase the frequency on these routes with a bus or tram to half hourly (or even quarter hourly) which would be less viable with heavy rail. I think for routes like this, I don’t think it would be any slower either due to the fairly low speed limits and the slow acceleration of the diesel sprinter trains that operate these routes. If anything, it might actually be a bit quicker, due to the faster acceleration and better braking ability of buses and trams. Buses can go faster round curves too, whereas trains can only safely go round tight curves at 10-20 mph.

They converted the Oldham Loop in Manchester from heavy rail into a tramway about 15 years ago and it was a big success (having previously been operated by pacer trains with a lot of squealing and bouncing) so I don’t see why other routes can’t do the same.

The farily low speed limits, fairly small distance between stations and the fairly low passenger numbers makes these routes excellent candidates for conversion to busways or light rail.

Also, if the Skipton to Colne line were to be reopened as a tramway or busway, it would provide excellent connections between East Lancashire and West Yorkshire, and it would be a lot cheaper than heavy rail. I bet it would get a lot of usage too.

I have attached a picture of a map I made of how it would work in Lancashire. I added a few extra fictional stations to my local area. I also added a Tyne and Wear Metro style stage fares system.

Preston to Ormskirk could easily be incorporated into Merseyrail, and Blackpool South to Kirkham + Wesham is under investigation for conversion to an extension of the Blackpool tramway, so wholesale conversion of those 2 lines would be misguided.

As for the Colne line, there are several reasons why light rail would not be the best option (electrification of the whole East Lancs lines area would be better).
1) = For the Skipton to Colne reopening business case to succeed, it needs to carry intercity passengers across the Pennines, in addition to local traffic, so Colne to Burnley needs to be heavy rail.
2) Even if you used tram-train vehicles, they would not deliver a significant improvement on the longer fast sections of the East Lancs stoppers (e.g. Bamber Bridge to Pleasington), due to their lower top speed.
100mph capable heavy rail EMUs would be much more suitable, because the acceleration and higher top speed would shave off significantly more journey time and, crucially, get East Lancs services off the busy WCML sooner.

If you want a tram system in East Lancs (which, having lived in Burnley and now living in Preston, I agree there is the need for) - I would build a initial line from Burnley town centre adjacent to the railway out to Rose Grove, then through Padiham, Simonstone and Great Harwood using as much of the alignment of the former Great Harwood Loop of the LYR as possible, before an on-street section on Whalley Old Rd into Blackburn town centre.
A second line (once the system had been proven) could be Great Harwood - Clayton le Moors - Accrington - Baxenden - Haslingden - Ewood Bridge (to interchange with a proposed Bury Line Metrolink extension to Rawtenstall and perhaps Bacup).

For a rail to light rail/tram-train conversion, I would nominate Lancaster to Heysham (2tph to Heysham, 4tph to Morecambe) - although this would entail expensive loops and signalling upgrades on the WCML, it would provide a significantly better service to a conurbation of over 100k, and you could extend from Lancaster station through the city centre to Lancaster Uni (down Bowerham Rd/Ln and a new alignment towards the campus of approx. 0.8 miles), plus Halton Park & Ride down to the Lune and along the former Midland Railway trackbed towards Wennington.


Edit:
Here's a rough outline of what I propose in Lancaster - please note not to scale.

 

[30907]

The point of any tramway/tram-train/busway conversion has to be greater penetration, whether of town centres (etc) or residential areas. The obvious example is Metrolink (Rochdale and Oldham as well as Central Manchester).

Blackpool South and the Manchester routes would fit that criterion - Rose Grove to Colne and Preston to Ormskirk don't. TBH I can't think of any others.

 

[Burton Road]

The point of any tramway/tram-train/busway conversion has to be greater penetration, whether of town centres (etc) or residential areas. The obvious example is Metrolink (Rochdale and Oldham as well as Central Manchester).

Blackpool South and the Manchester routes would fit that criterion - Rose Grove to Colne and Preston to Ormskirk don't. TBH I can't think of any others.

Perhaps Colne-Burnley could work if it's diverted to help connect the Pendle towns with better rail services at Manchester Road via Burnley town centre?

 

[PacerTrain142]

Preston to Ormskirk could easily be incorporated into Merseyrail, and Blackpool South to Kirkham + Wesham is under investigation for conversion to an extension of the Blackpool tramway, so wholesale conversion of those 2 lines would be misguided.

As for the Colne line, there are several reasons why light rail would not be the best option (electrification of the whole East Lancs lines area would be better).
1) = For the Skipton to Colne reopening business case to succeed, it needs to carry intercity passengers across the Pennines, in addition to local traffic, so Colne to Burnley needs to be heavy rail.
2) Even if you used tram-train vehicles, they would not deliver a significant improvement on the longer fast sections of the East Lancs stoppers (e.g. Bamber Bridge to Pleasington), due to their lower top speed.
100mph capable heavy rail EMUs would be much more suitable, because the acceleration and higher top speed would shave off significantly more journey time and, crucially, get East Lancs services off the busy WCML sooner.

If you want a tram system in East Lancs (which, having lived in Burnley and now living in Preston, I agree there is the need for) - I would build a initial line from Burnley town centre adjacent to the railway out to Rose Grove, then through Padiham, Simonstone and Great Harwood using as much of the alignment of the former Great Harwood Loop of the LYR as possible, before an on-street section on Whalley Old Rd into Blackburn town centre.
A second line (once the system had been proven) could be Great Harwood - Clayton le Moors - Accrington - Baxenden - Haslingden - Ewood Bridge (to interchange with a proposed Bury Line Metrolink extension to Rawtenstall and perhaps Bacup).

For a rail to light rail/tram-train conversion, I would nominate Lancaster to Heysham (2tph to Heysham, 4tph to Morecambe) - although this would entail expensive loops and signalling upgrades on the WCML, it would provide a significantly better service to a conurbation of over 100k, and you could extend from Lancaster station through the city centre to Lancaster Uni (down Bowerham Rd/Ln and a new alignment towards the campus of approx. 0.8 miles), plus Halton Park & Ride down to the Lune and along the former Midland Railway trackbed towards Wennington.


Edit:
Here's a rough outline of what I propose in Lancaster - please note not to scale.

In my opinion, I think a 100 mph EMU would be overkill for the east lancs line. The line speed is about 70 mph maximum, so a 75 mph train would be fine, and anything more than two coaches would also be overkill for that route - except maybe on a saturday on a nice day in summer. Most modern EMU's are 4 coaches minimum, and some of the platforms on the route are not even long enough to support a 4 car train. That's why I think tram-trains would be more suitable (and wouldn't be much of a downgrade over the pacers that used to run on the route). But if Preston to Leeds via Burnley route was electrified, then they could run a 4 car EMU on the Blackpool North to York route.

Electrifying the Preston to Ormskirk line and running a through Preston to Liverpool via Ormskirk service seems like a great idea, however, I'm not sure the passenger numbers on the route would justify it.

 

[Grimsby town]

In my opinion, I think a 100 mph EMU would be overkill for the east lancs line. The line speed is about 70 mph maximum, so a 75 mph train would be fine, and anything more than two coaches would also be overkill for that route - except maybe on a saturday on a nice day in summer. Most modern EMU's are 4 coaches minimum, and some of the platforms on the route are not even long enough to support a 4 car train. That's why I think tram-trains would be more suitable (and wouldn't be much of a downgrade over the pacers that used to run on the route). But if Preston to Leeds via Burnley route was electrified, then they could run a 4 car EMU on the Blackpool North to York route.

Electrifying the Preston to Ormskirk line and running a through Preston to Liverpool via Ormskirk service seems like a great idea, however, I'm not sure the passenger numbers on the route would justify it.

I do think moving towards more frequent tram-trains between Preston and Colne would be sensible. The line generally operates through deprived urban areas so there'd definitely be a social benefit to increasing frequency. Tram-trains would avoid full conversion of the rail line allowing heavy rail services to continue. Burnley-Colne could become more of a tram route with potential future diversions and extensions.

I'm not sure how the class 397s costs stack up against a modern DMU but I'd assume they'd be cheaper and lighter. Moving towards driver only operation would reduce costs too although may be difficult with the unions. One possibility could be moving towards more local control and integrating it with local bus services and treating it more as more of an express bus service.

To be honest, I'm not sure why more reopenings don't consider light rail. It would avoid the costs of grade separating every road intersection, reduce the costs of stations/allow at grade crossings and be less costly to operate. The only disadvantages I can forsee are the need for depot facilities and the inability to run through services. That can be solved with tram trains at the cost of more expensive vehicles and stations (due to being high floor)

 

[The Planner]

In my opinion, I think a 100 mph EMU would be overkill for the east lancs line. The line speed is about 70 mph maximum, so a 75 mph train would be fine, and anything more than two coaches would also be overkill for that route - except maybe on a saturday on a nice day in summer. Most modern EMU's are 4 coaches minimum, and some of the platforms on the route are not even long enough to support a 4 car train. That's why I think tram-trains would be more suitable (and wouldn't be much of a downgrade over the pacers that used to run on the route). But if Preston to Leeds via Burnley route was electrified, then they could run a 4 car EMU on the Blackpool North to York route.

Electrifying the Preston to Ormskirk line and running a through Preston to Liverpool via Ormskirk service seems like a great idea, however, I'm not sure the passenger numbers on the route would justify it.

Platform extensions would be a damn sight cheaper than conversion to light rail. People also unnecessarily latch on to the max speed of units compared to the line they are on, if Northern decided to run HSTs over the line this forum would explode in excitement.