Are JCP railcards issued immediately to eligible persons or is there a waiting period?
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Issuance of Jobcentre Plus Railcard (JCP) - Timescale.
- Thread starter reb0118
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R
RailUK Forums
Thanks for that. I'm actually trying to find out if there is a waiting period for the card after being deemed eligible.
I haven't had one myself but as far as I'm aware they're issued on the spot, providing you have a passport photo to enable them to do so.
Tazi Hupefi
Established Member
They're issued on the spot once eligible, BUT, in most cases they're not in practice, as they need a specific grade of civil servant to issue them, and the job seeker is told to make an appointment, usually weeks later.
It would be highly unusual to get one quickly.
JCP is a hot topic at the moment within the industry - it's absolutely the most abused discount, often involved in quite persistent and sustained fraud.
Adam Williams
Established Member
Which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Any change, of course, has to be balanced with the risk of introducing yet more friction into the process for those who are legitimately entitled to hold the card or preventing currently permitted use-cases (e.g. booking in advance, before the discount card turns up, to take advantage of lower prices).
Really, this could do with being reformed in a more general way, beyond the rail aspect. I don't understand the point of the 13 week waiting period and then the additional "discretion" that the discount card is gated behind. Means-test it and issue it from day 1 of a JSA allowance claim if it is clear that travelling to interviews is going to be financially burdensome for the claimant so that the focus is on getting them back into work.
FCC used to have a scheme where Job Centres in their area could issue tickets (or in limited cases season tickets) for job seekers to use to attend interviews and for people who had just started work but were waiting for their first pay day and had 'cash flow' issues.
The tickets were free but the Job Centre had a budget for how many could be isued. Seems a much better way than the JCP Railcard, and less opportunity for abuse.
The tickets were free but the Job Centre had a budget for how many could be isued. Seems a much better way than the JCP Railcard, and less opportunity for abuse.
redreni
Established Member
Doesn't making the person wait several weeks defeat the object of the scheme, in many ways? By the time they finally get the discount they need to get to work, they've already been dismissed for not turning up?
Is the industry sure the issue isn't that the people who abuse this discount have very little money, in which case it's very unlikely any significant new revenue could be generated from them no matter how hard revenue protection staff crack down? You might conceivaby stop them travelling (though that's by no means guaranteed), but you can't get revenue from people who haven't got any money.
There is a thread in Disputes and Prosecutions where it would appear the person may have been systematically buying JCP railcard-discounted tickets despite not holding a JCP railcard. Making the process of obtaining the JCP railcard take weeks following approval does absolutely nothing to prevent that, of course.
Is the industry sure the issue isn't that the people who abuse this discount have very little money, in which case it's very unlikely any significant new revenue could be generated from them no matter how hard revenue protection staff crack down? You might conceivaby stop them travelling (though that's by no means guaranteed), but you can't get revenue from people who haven't got any money.
There is a thread in Disputes and Prosecutions where it would appear the person may have been systematically buying JCP railcard-discounted tickets despite not holding a JCP railcard. Making the process of obtaining the JCP railcard take weeks following approval does absolutely nothing to prevent that, of course.
Tazi Hupefi
Established Member
The people abusing the discount don't have a JCP Railcard in the first place, and never have - probably don't even know what one actually is. Most of the people caught have been working professionals or students looking to save on their commute.
The number of them actually issued is miniscule in comparison to the number of people buying discounted tickets online.
I saw a shocking number at one TOC, something like 90% of ticket sales with a JCP are completely fraudulent.
It's often used in a combination of offences/frauds - applying the discount is just one component of the abuse.
redreni
Established Member
Okay, well in that case I'm unsure why we're even discussing that fraud on this thread. It doesn't explain why frontline Jobcentre staff can't issue these railcards without referring it to some absurdly senior manager.
That's more likely due to DWP wanting to be seen to operate a scheme that makes them look caring, practical and 'welfare-to-work' focussed, but being extremely reluctant to fund it.
Tazi Hupefi
Established Member
Because DWP doesn't actually want to issue these. To be fair, there has also been a few issues with Jobcentre staff abusing the discount too, with a genuine JCP card - so I'm not surprised in the world of the civil service that they're not handed out easily.
I'm not sure if you have any experience of the Jobcentre - but it's not designed to help you into work despite it's name - it's designed to put as many obstructions in a claimants way as possible until they either slip up and get sanctioned or give up and find a job themselves.
redreni
Established Member
I used to work for them, but that was any years ago.
I'm more than aware the purpose of the railcard scheme is to give them ammunition for press lines, speeches, ministerial correspondence, answers to parliamentary questions etc whereby they can claim to be caring, welfare-to-work focussed, and so on. They're none of those things, of course.
That's why it makes perfect sense that only a tiny number of cards would actually be issued - the scheme only has to exist in order for them to be able to refer to it. There's no need to put more than a token amount of money into it.
If the number of JCP railcards issued is tiny then either withdraw them or make JCP tickets purchasable through a dedicated website only, similar to PRIV discounts. Wouldn’t completely stop fraud but would reduce it significantly.
I've sadly become eligible for a JCP Railcard (first time ever for me) and once I met the time limits (13 weeks seeking employment I think) the Railcard was issued as soon as I had photos available.
Photos handed in on a Wednesday with a simple form. Card issued next day - paper format only, with old fashioned signature. The only reason it wasn't done instantly when I handed in the photos was that the admin person was busy with other meetings.
Card is valid 3 months, and the paperwork states it's useful for interviews AND when you have just started back in work (and money remains tight).
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