Issue of ToD with Chase Debit Card purchased with Scotrail

[hkstudent]

Recently, Scotrail has started to have 4.25% cashback from a cashback site, which I suggested to some friends use.
However, one of my friends used Chase Debit Card which is an online-based, and the physical debit card does not carry a card number or expiry information (just as a physical medium of the virtual card).

She couldn't collect the ticket from the ticket machine as it seems the card details do not match, while the ticket office (small local station in SW London) is unable/unwilling to help with releasing the ticket, claiming she needs to call Scotrail to rectify the issue. Is there any advice I can do to her, to avoid such chaos in future (other than getting another bank's card, as she is not getting an address proof to open a physical bank account in the UK yet)?

(Many of the journeys will be cross London journeys, so a e-ticket is also not an option)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The advice to contact the retailer is correct, they can change it to an "any card" collection.

The best advice following that is indeed not to use virtual cards for the purpose of online ticket purchase, or to always use e- or m-tickets if another card isn't a possibility. Alternatively I suppose Chase Bank may tell her what the "real" card details are to use. Alternatively if the OP can find a retail site that accepts PayPal this has to be "any card" because PayPal doesn't give the merchant the card details.

(Very rare I advise the use of m-tickets, but this may be an edge case where they are useful, as ScotRail mostly don't offer e-tickets but I think do offer m-tickets for all flows)

Edit: Chase's site says: "A numberless cardYour card details are stored in the app, so no one can see them but you." - this suggests it isn't by default a virtual card, did she add a virtual card and use that?

 

[roversfan2001]

If she uses PayPal then it will be set to any card collection (though she won't get the 1% cashback that Chase offer).

 

[iphone76]

I've used my Chase card quite a few times with no issues. As mentioned above, I go into the App and click on the picture of the card and make a note of the card number, expiry date and security code displayed. This is with Greater Anglia.

 

[James H]

I've used my Chase card quite a few times with no issues. As mentioned above, I go into the App and click on the picture of the card and make a note of the card number, expiry date and security code displayed. This is with Greater Anglia.

The card number displayed in the Chase app is distinct from the actual number of your physical card.

You can discover the number of your actual Chase card in two ways - by using it for travel on TfL, which will prompt the Chase app to show you the real card details to allow you to add them to your TfL contactless account, or by using a third-party card reader app.

I used the latter method to get the card details for use with Airtime Rewards

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now that's poor. Why don't Chase show the physical card details and give you a virtual one as well? This is going to be causing issues in all sorts of places if people don't know they're using a virtual card.

 

[OscarH]

Now that's poor. Why don't Chase show the physical card details and give you a virtual one as well? This is going to be causing issues in all sorts of places if people don't know they're using a virtual card.

Where else do you think it'll cause issues out of interest, I'm struggling to think of anywhere where it matters except ToD

 

[embers25]

Now that's poor. Why don't Chase show the physical card details and give you a virtual one as well? This is going to be causing issues in all sorts of places if people don't know they're using a virtual card.

Chase claim its to reduce fraud and when you purchase the card number used for the purchase changes each time to stop fraudsters copying your card details. It's clever but also problematic and they do warn of problems such as the one experienced here.

 

[iphone76]

The card number displayed in the Chase app is distinct from the actual number of your physical card.

You can discover the number of your actual Chase card in two ways - by using it for travel on TfL, which will prompt the Chase app to show you the real card details to allow you to add them to your TfL contactless account, or by using a third-party card reader app.

I used the latter method to get the card details for use with Airtime Rewards

Oh that's very odd then. So when I go into the app and click on the card and see details, thays not my physical card number? Even though it never changes and the date and security ode are the same? Cheers

 

[James H]

That's right, you have two Chase card numbers.

I have both card numbers in my Airtime Rewards account to avoid missing out on cashback

I should say I ran into this problem last Christmas when I bought tickets from GWR with my Chase card that I was then unable to collect via TOD.

GWR on the phone said they couldn't change to any card collection but my local GTR ticket office printed the tickets without quibble.

So it may be worth trying a few stations if your friend hasn't yet sorted their issue this time.

The Scotrail website doesn't seem to offer Paypal as an option, but maybe the app is different

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where else do you think it'll cause issues out of interest, I'm struggling to think of anywhere where it matters except ToD

Fair point, I actually can't think of one off hand, though I'm sure there will be one. In most other contexts if you need to prove it's you anything proving your name is accepted.

 

[DelayRepay]

I have a Chase account. It's a good account in terms of cashback, but some of the features feel a bit half finished.

I have no idea what my physical card number is - although I Chase to pay on TfL, I did it through Google Pay which shows the virtual card number. It doesn't matter really as the physical card lives in a safe place at home - I only use Chase for purchases due to the cashback, which I do through Google Pay (partly because it took them six weeks to actually send the physical card!)

Here's the advice they give in the app, although I am not convinced this is correct.





Edit: The text says
Issues with some rail operators
Please use e-tickets for Northern Rail, South Western and Heathrow Express as you may be unable to collect with your card from their machines. Or go to a ticket office and show your booking reference.

Fair point, I actually can't think of one off hand, though I'm sure there will be one. In most other contexts if you need to prove it's you anything proving your name is accepted.

Probably not what you were thinking, but I assume TFL wouldn't recognise my virtual card (in Google Pay) and my physical card as being one and the same and so would not apply price capping correctly if I used both on the same day?

 

[James H]

The advice in the Chase app about rail tickets is incorrect.

 

[DelayRepay]

Is there any advice I can do to her, to avoid such chaos in future (other than getting another bank's card, as she is not getting an address proof to open a physical bank account in the UK yet)?

(Many of the journeys will be cross London journeys, so a e-ticket is also not an option)

Use a retailer who allows payment by PayPal as mentioned above, or who's known to offer any card collection - but then your friend would miss out on the Scotrail cashback (perhaps a small price to pay to avoid the chaos).

Or try opening a Basic Bank Account with a different bank. Basic Bank Accounts don't involve a credit check. As she's passed the money laundering identity checks for Chase, she may pass them for another bank. The checks are not as stringent for a basic account due to the limited functionality.

 

[RJ]

The Chase debit card is good for generating unlimited cashback in an infinite loop, despite their best efforts to try and prevent this. It's a pity it only lasts for a year. And some people will value the security features.

The railways need to issue some guidance on virtual card accounts. I'm getting an increasing number of customers who are coming to the ticket window with the virtual debit cards they booked with and the transactions are always flagged same card collection.

 

[DelayRepay]

The advice in the Chase app about rail tickets is incorrect.

I thought it was. But having spent a week going backwards and forwards with their Chatbot trying to find out where my card was, I don't fancy trying to explain to them why it's wrong.

The Chase debit card is good for generating unlimited cashback in an infinite loop, despite their best efforts to try and prevent this. It's a pity it only lasts for a year. And some people will value the security features.

I don't think hiding the card numbers is a valuable security feature since, unless you do something stupid like write your PIN down the fraud liability sits with the bank, not the card holder. Although I guess it saves the hassle of having to submit a fraud claim if the worst happens.

I love the cashback, and the 1.5% instant access savings account's good, but I don't think I'll stick with them once the 12 month offer's ended. I certainly wouldn't trust them as my main bank at the moment.

 

[James H]

The railways need to issue some guidance on virtual card accounts. I'm getting an increasing number of customers who are coming to the ticket window with the virtual debit cards they booked with and the transactions are always flagged same card collection.

The LNER website includes a warning against using virtual cards as part of the checkout flow

 

[Adam Williams]

The railways need to issue some guidance on virtual card accounts. I'm getting an increasing number of customers who are coming to the ticket window with the virtual debit cards they booked with and the transactions are always flagged same card collection.

Perhaps we should just admit it's (probably) a relic of the past and serves little tangible purpose in a world where we can e.g. enforce 3D Secure at checkout.

 

[DelayRepay]

Perhaps we should just admit it's (probably) a relic of the past and serves little tangible purpose in a world where we can e.g. enforce 3D Secure at checkout.

I agree - there are lots of other things that can be collected with just a reference number. E.g. I ordered an expensive item from Argos which was handed to me when I quoted a code from a text message. I can spend gift vouchers just by showing a pdf of a barcode on my phone. Natwest even let you to withdraw cash from an ATM without a card, using a code generated in their mobile app.

I think in a few years physical cards will become an optional feature with bank accounts, like chequebooks are now. Most people will be content to use a virtual card, and an app-based facility as I described above on the rare occasion they want to withdraw cash. Cards and PINs will only be issued to people who ask for them and the banks will make a big deal about how many tonnes of plastic they're saving as a result

 

[Wallsendmag]

I agree - there are lots of other things that can be collected with just a reference number. E.g. I ordered an expensive item from Argos which was handed to me when I quoted a code from a text message. I can spend gift vouchers just by showing a pdf of a barcode on my phone. Natwest even let you to withdraw cash from an ATM without a card, using a code generated in their mobile app.

I think in a few years physical cards will become an optional feature with bank accounts, like chequebooks are now. Most people will be content to use a virtual card, and an app-based facility as I described above on the rare occasion they want to withdraw cash. Cards and PINs will only be issued to people who ask for them and the banks will make a big deal about how many tonnes of plastic they're saving as a result

ToD will dissapear within a fairly short timescale.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Use a retailer who allows payment by PayPal as mentioned above, or who's known to offer any card collection - but then your friend would miss out on the Scotrail cashback (perhaps a small price to pay to avoid the chaos).

Or try opening a Basic Bank Account with a different bank. Basic Bank Accounts don't involve a credit check. As she's passed the money laundering identity checks for Chase, she may pass them for another bank. The checks are not as stringent for a basic account due to the limited functionality.

Chase don't do credit checks. They require you to take a picture of your passport/driving licence

I have a Chase account. It's a good account in terms of cashback, but some of the features feel a bit half finished.

I have no idea what my physical card number is - although I Chase to pay on TfL, I did it through Google Pay which shows the virtual card number. It doesn't matter really as the physical card lives in a safe place at home - I only use Chase for purchases due to the cashback, which I do through Google Pay (partly because it took them six weeks to actually send the physical card!)

Here's the advice they give in the app, although I am not convinced this is correct.



View attachment 118065

Edit: The text says
Issues with some rail operators
Please use e-tickets for Northern Rail, South Western and Heathrow Express as you may be unable to collect with your card from their machines. Or go to a ticket office and show your booking reference.


Probably not what you were thinking, but I assume TFL wouldn't recognise my virtual card (in Google Pay) and my physical card as being one and the same and so would not apply price capping correctly if I used both on the same day?

TfL explicitly state you should use the same device/card. Even though your online TfL account recognises it as the same account, the systems charging you your fare don't.

 

[David M]

I thought tickets purchased via Scotrail permitted you to use any card at the ticket machine to collect the tickets, not necessarily the card you paid with.
As an aside, Curve card is accepted for ticket collection if used to pay with.

 

[DelayRepay]

Chase don't do credit checks. They require you to take a picture of your passport/driving licence

Yes I know - my point was that they may also meet the identity check requirement for another bank, if they apply for a Basic account as Basic accounts do not involve a credit check.

 

[_toommm_]

I thought tickets purchased via Scotrail permitted you to use any card at the ticket machine to collect the tickets, not necessarily the card you paid with.
As an aside, Curve card is accepted for ticket collection if used to pay with.

Curve acts as an intermediary. The payment layer/payment taker sees the curve card number and associates that with the TOD, and then Curve charge it back to the card you’ve selected in the app with the reference *CRV xxxxxx, where xxxxxx is the name of the merchant that you entered the Curve details into. So as far as the train booking website is confirmed, you’ve just booked with a Debit Mastercard ending abcd, it won’t know about anything going on behind the scenes, if you use Curve Cash, if you later change the card you paid with through the app etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

ToD will dissapear within a fairly short timescale.

Has a solution to e-tickets for all journeys including cross London now been agreed?

 

[Taunton]

ToD will disappear within a fairly short timescale.

How then do I collect my tickets that our corporate travel agent has procured for me, and emailed the TOD reference.

 

[DelayRepay]

How then do I collect my tickets that our corporate travel agent has procured for me, and emailed the TOD reference.

This is easy - they'll just email you an e-ticket instead so you won't have to collect anything.

Has a solution to e-tickets for all journeys including cross London now been agreed?

This is, unfortunately, the big issue. The only time I use ToD these days is for journeys involving a cross-London transfer. Most of my other journeys are available on e-tickets Annoyingly, I can't get an e-ticket for one regular journey because it allows a transfer on the underground - even though in practice I don't need the Maltese Cross as I walk from Euston to St Pancras.

 

[Taunton]

This is easy - they'll just email you an e-ticket instead so you won't have to collect anything.

How do I get through a gateline with my laptop e-mails?

 

[James H]

You print the e-ticket yourself or display it on a mobile device

 

[Wallsendmag]

How do I get through a gateline with my laptop e-mails?

It that’s what you want to do it’ll work

Has a solution to e-tickets for all journeys including cross London now been agreed?

It’s working through the necessary steps