ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Are you a psychiatrist? Thought not.
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Jamie Bulger killer back in jail
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So what? Neither are you, or probably most people contributing this topic. So are you saying we should say it's only open to psychiatrists?
You don't seem to answer many of the points or many of the questions put to you. *Yawn*
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
No, only psychiatrists should make decisions about how and why a child's mind works in a certian way.
So which questions haven't I answered? Please give me a list I will be glad to do so.
So which questions haven't I answered? Please give me a list I will be glad to do so.
I'm not making decisions about how minds work. Also, I am not sure that psychiatrists "make decisions" as to how someones mind works? I don't think so. They diagnose, evaluate and treat patients.
In this topic? They're all on page 4 so no need for me to repeat them, they're easy to find. Anyway you don't have to answer them.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
And through the diagnostic, and evaluation phases decisions are made.
Kneedown
Established Member
Why doesn't it?
The only difference is in numbers, ie one as opposed to millions, but the fact remains, a family lost their baby, brutally murdered and with the killers out there. Why should she just "Get over it".
Because it will eat her up, destroy her life even more, and the lives of those around her if she doesn't. And this is not saying "shrug your shoulders and forget" which is impossible and insulting. It is saying "do not let your anger and grief get in the way of your life today".
90019
Established Member
One question.
What would you hope to achieve by killing them?
Would James Bulger magically come back to life?
All you'd end up with is 3 people dead rather than one.
Yes, having 0 dead would be better, but one is already dead; and 3 dead is still worse than 1.
And what would happen if it's found out later that the accused was actually innocent? Someone in prison may have lost years of their life, but they can still get something back, a dead person cannot.
I wonder if you'd still hold the same views if you were falsely accused of something, found guilty and were going to be executed, even though you haven't done anything wrong?
Kneedown
Established Member
No he wouldn't miraculously come back to life, but justice would then be served. True justice is about balance. For justice to be served the perpetrator must forfeit equal or greater than the victims. In this case they are alive today, living their lives in relative freedom while James isn't. This is not justice. Justice would have been served by waiting until they were 18 then dragging them both to the gallows.
Two of whom deserve it, and also society would be safer as a result as the guilty one's certainly wouldn't do it again. You are being blinkered in that you just see three people dead. You do not differentiate between the innocent and the guilty.
I think it's pretty safe to say that the two who killed James are 100% guilty.
Here we go again, back to the old, tired argument of "You might hang the wrong man!" It really doesn't hold water. To look at the papers you'd think miscarriages of justice happened every day. Take this country for example, we've got the cases of Evans, Bentley and Hanratty. It is so easy to pick over the bones of cases years later and interpret something as evidence of innocence. To examine the case of Evans in detail, there is a strong likelihood that he was in some sort of collusion with Christie. His violent marriage was well known to his neighbours and the authorities. In Bentleys case there is no doubt that he shouted "Let him have it" but the abolitionists seize on that to say he was trying to get Craig to hand over the gun. Notwithstanding the fact that it would have been a strange way of asking, it's also conveniently forgotton that Bentley was addicted to American gangster movies and would have been more likely to use the phrase in the context of "Open fire". Even though he didn't fire the shot, the law as it stood at the time meant he was guilty of murder and rightly hanged. The abolitionists used to make a great noise about the A6 murderer James Hanratty, but they soon shut up when DNA evidence proved he did it after all!
The fact is, even though people have had their convictions quashed, it's only by technicality. It doesn't mean they are innocent. Even if one or two innocents did hang, which i personally doubt, equate that to the number of innocents murdered every year. What should be the greater concern?
Because it is consuming her and eating her up. She needs to find peace in her life for the rest of her years. That is why she should 'get over it'.
Geezertronic
Established Member
Taking another stance, you could say that people like James's mother are responsible for keeping the issue of child safety in the press and in the thinking of the government?
And that is a whole other ball game! As one who has been responsible for Child protection policies for a national organisation, I would say that, because the authorities have focused on the major incidents (such as Soham, or James Bulger) they have got the whole issue out of kilter. No reasonable amount of child safety measures would have prevented these cases (not even, IMHO, Soham) because they are, by nature, unpredictable. However, in building our idea of child safety around the image of one-off "monsters", we have created a society where no major increase in safety has been achieved but at the price of restricting thousands of totally innocent workers. In this respect, there is a parallel between the need to protect against suicide bombers having a major consequence of stopping hobbyist rail photography. So, IMHO, the prominence given to James' mother and other parents in similar circumstances has actually resulted in greater harm.
AlexS
Established Member
I find this case is quite interesting, and it will be interesting if charges are brought. However the lines between childhood and adulthood have become somewhat blurred in this case.
However, this fella http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/8557837.stm, execute the evil creature without a second thought. He's clearly permanently broken inside.
However, this fella http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/8557837.stm, execute the evil creature without a second thought. He's clearly permanently broken inside.
Why did the government release details that Venables was back in prison and then not be prepared to say why ? Surely if they thought he deserved a fair trial it would have been better not to say anything at all.
Glad I am not in my twenties and up in court in the next few months.
Glad I am not in my twenties and up in court in the next few months.
Phoenix
Established Member
I'm interested by the fact that some people in this world or specifically in country want to kill those who do evil the problem with that is the fact two wrong do not make a right.
We gave up the ability to execute in this country frankly because since the start of civilisation we have completely abused the right to excute those who break the law.
Now if people want this venebles guy killed would they be prepared to do it themselves or push the button and watch him die ? nope didn't think so because it's easy to hold up a banner pleading for the goverment or the justice system to do the dirty work but really what do we achive by having those evil people killed ......... nothing they have nothing to live for as it is and realise exactly what they have done killing them would just tar everyone else with the same brush.
I hate it when people decide to take the life of another for their own sick personal gain but I hate it too a close second when people think a smart idea would be to have murder's hung,drawn and quartered without and real justification other than "well they did it so they can have it done to them"
My simple reply to that is "so would you like do it yourself or would you rather sit in your armchair and have someone else do it to save you from being a psychotic vigilante"
(this is not a personal attack upon anyone in particular so please do not get offended by the above)
We gave up the ability to execute in this country frankly because since the start of civilisation we have completely abused the right to excute those who break the law.
Now if people want this venebles guy killed would they be prepared to do it themselves or push the button and watch him die ? nope didn't think so because it's easy to hold up a banner pleading for the goverment or the justice system to do the dirty work but really what do we achive by having those evil people killed ......... nothing they have nothing to live for as it is and realise exactly what they have done killing them would just tar everyone else with the same brush.
I hate it when people decide to take the life of another for their own sick personal gain but I hate it too a close second when people think a smart idea would be to have murder's hung,drawn and quartered without and real justification other than "well they did it so they can have it done to them"
My simple reply to that is "so would you like do it yourself or would you rather sit in your armchair and have someone else do it to save you from being a psychotic vigilante"
(this is not a personal attack upon anyone in particular so please do not get offended by the above)
royaloak
Established Member
Where is the syringe or the switch, I will do it!
Would I feel any remorse, nope.
Would I lose sleep, nope.
Would I feel justice had been done, YES most definitely.
thefab444
Established Member
It's very easy to say that on an internet forum, but if you feel so strongly why didn't you top him whilst he was out? And, to be frank, by feeling no remorse over it it makes you as bad as the original criminal.
Kneedown
Established Member
Seconded.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Because i am a law abiding citizen and i'm sure R'oak is too. I may not agree with the some laws we have but that is no excuse to break those laws.
To counter your second point, are our troops in Afghan supposed to feel remorse everytime they kill an insurgent? If they don't does that, in your opinion, make them as bad as the Taliban?
royaloak
Established Member
By injecting the piece of filth I would be acting within the law, by getting him "in the street" I would be breaking the law, is that easy enough for you!
Not within the law of a civilised country. Which countries give 10 year olds a death sentence?
And as for the claim (by Kneedown) earlier that giving kids a death sentence would act as a deterrent - that's a laughable suggestion. As if a 10 year old is going to think "Oh, I'd better not try to murder them because if I do, I will be killed myself instead of spending the rest of my childhood locked up".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8233822.stm these brothers are no better than Thompson and Venables. And sadly they won't be the last. Not because 10 year olds choose to act that way, but because they are brought up to be like that by parents who should never have been allowed to raise them like that.
But nothing is done about the parents, it's always the kids who chose to be pure evil and the solution is to murder them. That will stop any other kids choosing to attempt murder again. Right?
royaloak
Established Member
It was more of a general comment about doing the deed to any convicted murderer, and as we (at the moment) do not have the death penalty in this country it is not really possible, but if it were possible I firmly believe I could and would be able to do it.
As long as having children and living on benefits is a viable career choice we are stuck with the chav scum.
As long as having children and living on benefits is a viable career choice we are stuck with the chav scum.
So would you administer a lethal injection to a ten year old? Or do you mean you would do it to them both now as adults?
royaloak
Established Member
Mmm good question, now the adult would be no problem, the 10 year old, difficult but they were convicted of an adult crime so probably a case of see if they get "better" as they get older then at say 20 years old a decision is made as to whether the sentence should be carried out, at 10 years old there is a (slim) chance of improvement so NO to a 10 year old but YES as they get older.
Kneedown
Established Member
I've never advocated executing children, but i think they should've been when they came of age.
So what would be the point in letting them live for a short time?
I suspect it is because you haven't got the balls to say you want a child dead?
Kneedown
Established Member
The death penalty deters a lot of people. you only have to look at society today and compare it to the 1950's when the hanging was the automatic sentence for murder.
Even if it wasn't a deterrent it's the only just sentence for wilful murder. You take a life, you forfeit your own.
So you want children to be given a death sentence and put on deathrow for 8 years?
Kneedown
Established Member
It's not a case of having the minerals, or not. I don't advocate the killing of children. No person in their right mind does. However that doesn't mean i don't believe they should be punished in a just manner when they reach adulthood.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes. Thats about the size of it. It's a lot better than James got.
Yes, I believe most of those soldiers who kill do feel remorse about taking the lives of a fellow human- that is widely recognised - and those who don't are considered not quite safe, and on a par with the Taliban. And i still maintain that "a death for a death" is a degrading and inhuman attitude - disgusting
royaloak
Established Member
Much better to give them a "life" sentence, released after 8 years (some "life" sentence) and given a new identity and protected for the rest of their lives, unless they get caught with child porn.
Actually pass the syringe!
Or release them on the understanding that if they get caught doing anything "serious" they will be executed, now that would be a good deterant. No I am not going to get drawn on "serious".
Actually pass the syringe!
Or release them on the understanding that if they get caught doing anything "serious" they will be executed, now that would be a good deterant. No I am not going to get drawn on "serious".
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