Kolhapur sold

[Rail Ranger]

Being reported on WNXX that David Smith of West Coast Railway has purchased Jubilee 45593 Kolhapur from Tyseley. The WNXX post says:

"I've heard today that a chap from West Coast Railway Co was seen looking around 45593 at Tyseley and the loco has now been sold to them".

 

[Harvester]

Hasn‘t 45593 been stored for years, awaiting for what is going to be a very expensive overhaul?

 

[D Williams]

According to Wicki it will cost £750,000. No source is quoted for this but given the millions spent on the "Flying Moneypit" it is probably in the right ball park, so to speak. Presumably Tyseley have decided they can run their business without it. You do have to wonder how often, in the future, this sort of money will be found for overhauls.

 

[Brush 4]

Spares for 45690 and 45699? I hope not.

 

[Spamcan81]

According to Wicki it will cost £750,000. No source is quoted for this but given the millions spent on the "Flying Moneypit" it is probably in the right ball park, so to speak. Presumably Tyseley have decided they can run their business without it. You do have to wonder how often, in the future, this sort of money will be found for overhauls.

Being non GWR, it probably doesn’t fit in with VT’s USP. Carnforth will be a good home for it.

 

[MarkyT]

I'm sure I recall one of the senior Tyseley guys saying on camera recently it's more practical and economical for a mainline steam operator to develop a fleet with common parts, design ethos etc, hence Tyseley is concentrating on its GWR fleet. It's not they don't like the loco, but disposing to another operator with deep experience of similar or identical machines is more likely to keep Jubilees represented on the mainline, and keep the skills and knowledge together to keep the class operating or even existing elsewhere into the future. It's a necessary business decision based on sound engineering judgement, in my humble opinion. Understandably, people get very attached to particular locomotives but I think we have to rationalise that a fleet of locos is little more than a huge collection of components bolted together that can change drastically each time the loco visits works for a major overhaul every few years where it is completely dismantled and reerected. That's the same in preservation, just as it was in frontline service. The A1 Steam Trust is using an identical boiler for the P2 new build as was installed on their A1, Tornado. The original P2s had a custom boiler of otherwise similar dimensions but with a longer barrel by about 18 inches. A1ST decided commonality of spares on such a critical component was more important than absolute authenticity (better not start that argument on this particular loco as they're incorporating numerous engineering refinements!) so they're going for a slightly longer smokebox in the new design, albeit disguised by the boiler casing. They're absolutely happy with the steam output capability of their A1 boiler in service with its 50 square foot grate, especially at the higher A1 pressure they're also upgrading the P2 to work at, and have ordered a spare boiler as well as the one for the P2. The intention is to run two large locos with three boilers, overhauling alternately as required and always having a spare boiler ready that can be swapped in to speed up return to service. So the question remains whether one particular new loco joining a fleet of similar machines necessarily means one of the identities will be lost. This is by no means certain, but I think there's a trend here of fleet consolidation across the sector and a greater focus on the engineering and operating practicalities involved in mainline steam operations.

 

[Ianigsy]

Could be good business for West Coast bearing in mind that they don’t actually own Leander and the Jubilees are a good fit for their S & C based tours.

 

[alexl92]

Could be good business for West Coast bearing in mind that they don’t actually own Leander and the Jubilees are a good fit for their S & C based tours.

Another factor to bear in mind is that Leander's next ticket (after the upcoming overhaul) is likely to be its last under the ownership of the Beet family. What happens next is anyone's guess - retirement/static display, a further overhaul for heritage line use only, sale to a new owner or something else - so potentially West Coast are ensuring that they have appropriate motive power for the long term?

Assuming Leander could be back in a year (I've no source on that, just that the previous overhauls on the loco seem have been fairly rapid), it gives WC a few years to get Kolhapur overhauled and run in, and given that Galatea has just returned this year for a new 10 year ticket, it would mean the pair could be overhauled alternatively.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I'm sure I recall one of the senior Tyseley guys saying on camera recently it's more practical and economical for a mainline steam operator to develop a fleet with common parts, design ethos etc, hence Tyseley is concentrating on its GWR fleet. It's not they don't like the loco, but disposing to another operator with deep experience of similar or identical machines is more likely to keep Jubilees represented on the mainline, and keep the skills and knowledge together to keep the class operating or even existing elsewhere into the future. It's a necessary business decision based on sound engineering judgement, in my humble opinion. Understandably, people get very attached to particular locomotives but I think we have to rationalise that a fleet of locos is little more than a huge collection of components bolted together that can change drastically each time the loco visits works for a major overhaul every few years where it is completely dismantled and reerected. That's the same in preservation, just as it was in frontline service. The A1 Steam Trust is using an identical boiler for the P2 new build as was installed on their A1, Tornado. The original P2s had a custom boiler of otherwise similar dimensions but with a longer barrel by about 18 inches. A1ST decided commonality of spares on such a critical component was more important than absolute authenticity (better not start that argument on this particular loco as they're incorporating numerous engineering refinements!) so they're going for a slightly longer smokebox in the new design, albeit disguised by the boiler casing. They're absolutely happy with the steam output capability of their A1 boiler in service with its 50 square foot grate, especially at the higher A1 pressure they're also upgrading the P2 to work at, and have ordered a spare boiler as well as the one for the P2. The intention is to run two large locos with three boilers, overhauling alternately as required and always having a spare boiler ready that can be swapped in to speed up return to service.

Makes perfect sense.

So the question remains whether one particular new loco joining a fleet of similar machines necessarily means one of the identities will be lost. This is by no means certain, but I think there's a trend here of fleet consolidation across the sector and a greater focus on the engineering and operating practicalities involved in mainline steam operations.

I doubt the "Kolhapur" will disappear at all. One of the WCR Jubilees has been running with alternate names and numbers for months I believe. Is it 45627 ? So it really doesn't whether they are supposed to be black, maroon or green, 10A will just do what they do.

 

[alexl92]

I hope Galatea reverts to her real identity after the next overhaul. The ‘Galberta Leone‘ situation got a bit silly.

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but - Carnforth have just bought two LMS class 5s (45110 &45593) which have both been out of service a long time ergo will need a lot of work, in a short space of time.
The recent court ruling aside, are they preparing for something that means they’ll need the extra traction in a couple of years time?

 

[Harvester]

I hope Galatea reverts to her real identity after the next overhaul. The ‘Galberta Leone‘ situation got a bit silly.

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but - Carnforth have just bought two LMS class 5s (45110 &45593) which have both been out of service a long time ergo will need a lot of work, in a short space of time.
The recent court ruling aside, are they preparing for something that means they’ll need the extra traction in a couple of years time?

The original 45562 Alberta, the last Jubilee to remain in BR service, was the preferred choice for preservation in 1967. However 45593 Kolhapur withdrawn a month earlier, was deemed to be in better condition so was purchased from BR instead. The motion and some fittings from 45562 were also acquired as spares, and these were eventually used in the restoration of 45699 Galatea. So 45699 masquerading as 45562 is not entirely inauthentic!

 

[1Q18]

I hope Galatea reverts to her real identity after the next overhaul. The ‘Galberta Leone‘ situation got a bit silly.

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but - Carnforth have just bought two LMS class 5s (45110 &45593) which have both been out of service a long time ergo will need a lot of work, in a short space of time.
The recent court ruling aside, are they preparing for something that means they’ll need the extra traction in a couple of years time?

Time out of traffic and amount of work needed for overhaul aren't necessarily proportional! Both locos have largely been stored inside, so I understand, so will not have suffered significant degradation from the weather, and obviously things like mechanical parts and the boiler aren't getting any more worn out while an engine is stored.

 

[alexl92]

The original 45562 Alberta, the last Jubilee to remain in BR service, was the preferred choice for preservation in 1967. However 45593 Kolhapur withdrawn a month earlier, was deemed to be in better condition so was purchased from BR instead. The motion and some fittings from 45562 were also acquired as spares, and these were eventually used in the restoration of 45699 Galatea. So 45699 masquerading as 45562 is not entirely inauthentic!

Yeah, I know that. The Alberta bit didn’t bother me so much, but running as Sierra Leone with Alberta’s number in certain places was just a bit ridiculous!

 

[D6130]

According to Wicki it will cost £750,000. No source is quoted for this but given the millions spent on the "Flying Moneypit" it is probably in the right ball park, so to speak. Presumably Tyseley have decided they can run their business without it. You do have to wonder how often, in the future, this sort of money will be found for overhauls.

 

[xotGD]

This thread gives me the excuse to post a couple of phots of 5593 in action on the GCR, 27th June 1993:





The one and only time I've had it for haulage.