Lack of QR scanners at stations

[TUC]

This morning, for the first time, I got one of the new, large paper tickets with a QR code rather than a magnetic stripe. However, when I got to Leeds i discovered a total lack of QR scanners to read them, meaning that any passengers with such tickets were having to go over to the staff operated gates.

I recognise that it may take time to roll QR scanners out to every station with ticket gates, but I have to ask what is the point of Northern introducing them without also having the arrangements for QR scanners to be at the largest station on their network?

Northern and Network Rail, co-ordination's not difficult.

 

[Sacro]

Aztec code, not QR

 

[alexl92]

I don't get the whole thing with QR/Aztec codes. They've been meant to be the next big thing to be rolled out for a few years now, but as a 20-something who's had smart phones for 5 years, I still have no idea how to use one with my phone, and I've never seen/heard of anyone actually using one.

What's the intention for them on tickets? Are they replacing the magnetic strip?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's the intention for them on tickets? Are they replacing the magnetic strip?

Yes, that's essentially the plan - more reliable, less likely to wear out, and capable of being used on phone screens, print at home etc.

The big benefit of them is that they are media-agnostic - you can use them on anything you can display one on, be that a phone, some kind of eInk screen, a bit of paper, an orange ticket or whatever you like.

 

[ag51ruk]

This morning, for the first time, I got one of the new, large paper tickets with a QR code rather than a magnetic stripe. However, when I got to Leeds i discovered a total lack of QR scanners to read them, meaning that any passengers with such tickets were having to go over to the staff operated gates.

I recognise that it may take time to roll QR scanners out to every station with ticket gates, but I have to ask what is the point of Northern introducing them without also having the arrangements for QR scanners to be at the largest station on their network?

Northern and Network Rail, co-ordination's not difficult.

The ticket gates were specified by Northern, not Network Rail

 

[kevjs]

I don't get the whole thing with QR/Aztec codes. They've been meant to be the next big thing to be rolled out for a few years now, but as a 20-something who's had smart phones for 5 years, I still have no idea how to use one with my phone, and I've never seen/heard of anyone actually using one.

You need to install an app on your phone (e.g. Barcode Scanner on Android) and then scan the code - the need to install an app before first use doesn't help make them useful from a consumer point of view.

About the only time I've seen them used in the wild is when using my Subway card - and even then you need to turn the phone back light to full while the cashier tries to get the scanner to read them..

The nearest comparison would be the barcode, but they can hold way more data and are useful for things like eTickets - i.e. you show your printout/phone and the ToC/place scans them.

 

[JaJaWa]

You need to install an app on your phone (e.g. Barcode Scanner on Android) and then scan the code - the need to install an app before first use doesn't help make them useful from a consumer point of view.

About the only time I've seen them used in the wild is when using my Subway card - and even then you need to turn the phone back light to full while the cashier tries to get the scanner to read them..

The nearest comparison would be the barcode, but they can hold way more data and are useful for things like eTickets - i.e. you show your printout/phone and the ToC/place scans them.

Not the case for everyone. Apple Wallet comes on every iPhone and adds boarding passes and cinema tickets from emails and store cards from apps. On flights I've been on recently it seems that most passengers are using it. And, it turns the backlight to full automatically when you open it.

 

[notlob.divad]

I use QR or some form of equivalency when flying. It is great because all of the scanners work with it on either my smart phone app a print at home boarding pass, or one printed at the airport. It is just easier all around (so long as the technology is installed).

The ticket gates were specified by Northern, not Network Rail

That is true of the new barriers, Liverpool Lime Street, Wigan Walgate, Salford Crescent, Bolton etc. but if I remember correctly, Leeds has had barriers installed for some time now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not sure that is the most helpful of advice.

Particularly as it's a Byelaw offence.

 

[Kentish Paul]

As a thick oldie, what is QR/Aztec and the appropriate scanners.
Whats wrong with a ticket?

 

[gordonthemoron]

As a thick oldie, what is QR/Aztec and the appropriate scanners.
Whats wrong with a ticket?

I use them for m-Tickets which are issued by Virgin West Coast and are held on your smartphone

 

[TheDavibob]

As a thick oldie, what is QR/Aztec and the appropriate scanners.
Whats wrong with a ticket?

They're essentially glorified barcodes, the scanner is typically a glass plate under the slot for tickets in a ticket barrier.

They allow for home printing/tickets on mobiles.

 

[TUC]

Much of the discussion above seems to assume I was talking about an m-ticket. I wasn't. It was a paper ticket issued at tbe station with the code printed on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The ticket gates were specified by Northern, not Network Rail

The reason for referring to NR as well is because Leeds is a directly managed station, albeit with the station staffing being from Northern. Even if Northern installed the gates this would presumably have had to be done with the consent and partnership of Network Rail, given it is their station.

And if Northern installed and manage the gates, all the more reason for them to ensure thery are compatible with the tickets they issue.

 

[route:oxford]

Particularly as it's a Byelaw offence.

Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the
barrier in the correct manner.

In this case the correct manner is to present a valid ticket to a scanner.

Northern have made a business decision not to implement a system that permits the barrier to open in "the correct manner".

There is, of course, the fall back system where the barrier is designed to open when reasonable pressure is applied.

 

[GatwickDepress]

In this case the correct manner is to present a valid ticket to a scanner.

Northern have made a business decision not to implement a system that permits the barrier to open in "the correct manner".

There is, of course, the fall back system where the barrier is designed to open when reasonable pressure is applied.

If I have a valid paper ticket that is rejected by the barrier, I go to the gate manned by a member of staff. I do not push my way through the barrier.

I imagine the same reasoning applies to tickets with Aztec codes. Pushing through the barriers seems needlessly antagonistic.

 

[anme]

Whats wrong with a ticket?

Many people asked Robert Stephenson what was wrong with the horse.

 

[button_boxer]

As a thick oldie, what is QR/Aztec and the appropriate scanners.
Whats wrong with a ticket?

QR and Aztec are two different standards for 2D barcodes. QR codes (typically used to encode web links for use by smartphones) have large squares close to three corners and a small square close to the fourth corner, Aztec (the type used by railways, airlines, etc) has one "bullseye" type concentric set of squares in the middle.

The useful thing for railways is that you can pack a lot more information about the ticket into an Aztec code than you ever could in a magnetic strip - ticket type, reservation times, the name on the booking, maybe even some of the key info from the restriction code so it becomes easier to get the barrier to distinguish valid and invalid tickets. And the code works equally well whether printed on special stock, plain paper, or displayed on a screen.

 

[Clip]

Much of the discussion above seems to assume I was talking about an m-ticket. I wasn't. It was a paper ticket issued at tbe station with the code printed on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The reason for referring to NR as well is because Leeds is a directly managed station, albeit with the station staffing being from Northern. Even if Northern installed the gates this would presumably have had to be done with the consent and partnership of Network Rail, given it is their station.

And if Northern installed and manage the gates, all the more reason for them to ensure thery are compatible with the tickets they issue.

Not trying to be flippant here but did you try to insert your ticket into the slot as per normal? Not sure the Aztec codes on paper tickets are meant to be scanned just yet

 

[JaJaWa]

Not trying to be flippant here but did you try to insert your ticket into the slot as per normal? Not sure the Aztec codes on paper tickets are meant to be scanned just yet

He referred to a large format ticket. I would not attempt to shove one into a ticket barrier slot or it will likely completely jam up the machine.

 

[infobleep]

QR and Aztec are two different standards for 2D barcodes. QR codes (typically used to encode web links for use by smartphones) have large squares close to three corners and a small square close to the fourth corner, Aztec (the type used by railways, airlines, etc) has one "bullseye" type concentric set of squares in the middle.

The useful thing for railways is that you can pack a lot more information about the ticket into an Aztec code than you ever could in a magnetic strip - ticket type, reservation times, the name on the booking, maybe even some of the key info from the restriction code so it becomes easier to get the barrier to distinguish valid and invalid tickets. And the code works equally well whether printed on special stock, plain paper, or displayed on a screen.

Which can hold more information, a QR code or Aztec code? Or are they ankut the same?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[TUC]

He referred to a large format ticket. I would not attempt to shove one into a ticket barrier slot or it will likely completely jam up the machine.

This is what the ticket looks like.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Northern have been tweeting this so they are obviously aware of the farce

They are holding a "Meet the Manager" at Leeds tomorrow evening, next to the gateline, if anybody wants to give them some feedback on this.

 

[button_boxer]

Which can hold more information, a QR code or Aztec code? Or are they ankut the same?

Both formats are extensible - if you need to represent more information you can use a larger code - but Aztec has a better density, i.e. for a given fixed size of code Aztec will store more data than QR. Also QR codes require a certain margin of blank space around the outside of the code, Aztec doesn't.

 

[HSTEd]

Are these for general issue now or are they still being trialled? Given the apparent lack of infrastructure I rather hope it is the latter.

 

[northwichcat]

The ticket gates were specified by Northern, not Network Rail

Actually they were specified and funded by DfT but Northern were responsible for seeing that they got installed and utilised.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

As a thick oldie, what is QR/Aztec and the appropriate scanners.
Whats wrong with a ticket?

they are the 2dimensional 'barcodes' which can holdrather more information than the single string of letters/ digits a convetional badcorde holds.

 

[pdq]

The coded paper tickets appear to be capable of working the gates at Huddersfield now.

 

[JaJaWa]

The coded paper tickets appear to be capable of working the gates at Huddersfield now.

Well done TPE!

 

[ag51ruk]

Actually they were specified and funded by DfT but Northern were responsible for seeing that they got installed and utilised.

I meant that Northern decided which manufacturer to use. In a world where Cubic gates are widely used and work well (and are the choice of the current Northern franchise), the previous franchise went for S&B gates which just seem slower and clunkier. I'm told that they are more difficult to add scanners to, as well.

 

[greaterwest]

I meant that Northern decided which manufacturer to use. In a world where Cubic gates are widely used and work well (and are the choice of the current Northern franchise), the previous franchise went for S&B gates which just seem slower and clunkier. I'm told that they are more difficult to add scanners to, as well.

Just to nitpick even further, S&B gates seem to reject valid tickets the "wrong way" - out the front instead of the top of the machine. Nearly lost an All Lines Rover because of this at Manchester Oxford Road. The gates seemed to need four members of staff as most passengers were having issues with tickets being rejected. They didn't appear to be revenue inspectors.

Cubic gates with barcode scanners should be far more widespread, in my opinion.