"Ladies and gentlemen"

[Christmas]

Transport for London decided some time ago to stop using the term "ladies and gentlemen" when making announcements to passengers. This is based on a policy of inclusion as it was thought that some people would feel left out. Many TOCs have now followed suit, with guards and drivers now beginning announcements with "good morning/afternoon/evening everyone".

I agree completely that ladies and gentlemen should no longer be used, as not only does it refer explicitly to adults of both sexes, it also leaves out younger people and those who neither qualify as, or identify as a lady or a gentleman. Quite frankly it is a very outdated term that belongs in the dustbin.

What do other members think? It would be interesting to know what each TOC's policy is regarding its use, and perhaps what those who make announcements actually say. Do you modify your announcements or just disregard the guidance?

Personally I think a simple "attention please" or simply dropping any introduction is best, just let people know the facts.

 

[DarloRich]

I think some people have to little to worry about! The world and our society are falling apart. This shouldnt be a worry!

 

[jh64]

Totally fine - passenger is a gender neutral word after all!

 

[ADIRU]

Transport for London decided some time ago to stop using the term "ladies and gentlemen" when making announcements to passengers. This is based on a policy of inclusion as it was thought that some people would feel left out. Many TOCs have now followed suit, with guards and drivers now beginning announcements with "good morning/afternoon/evening everyone".

I agree completely that ladies and gentlemen should no longer be used, as not only does it refer explicitly to adults of both sexes, it also leaves out younger people and those who neither qualify as, or identify as a lady or a gentleman. Quite frankly it is a very outdated term that belongs in the dustbin.

What do other members think? It would be interesting to know what each TOC's policy is regarding its use, and perhaps what those who make announcements actually say. Do you modify your announcements or just disregard the guidance?

Personally I think a simple "attention please" or simply dropping any introduction is best, just let people know the facts.

In the airline business, I never used the term 'Ladies & Gentlemen' because I agree with you that it is a bit staid and outdated. I much preferred your first suggestion of 'everyone/everybody' as no-one/nobody is left out...

 

[Gloster]

Why not use the Cyril Fletcher method: ‘Pin back your lugholes’? It has a nice ‘Londoner’ feeling for the tourists. (This is one for the oldies.)

 

[ADIRU]

Why not use the Cyril Fletcher method: ‘Pin back your lugholes’? It has a nice ‘Londoner’ feeling for the tourists. (This is one for the oldies.)

Another old one - 'If you have been, thank you for listening" at the end.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I sometimes hear passengers informally addressed as "guys" which seems nowadays to be a generic non-gender-specific term, but I find it irritating as if the information only applies to males. I wonder if many women like to be referred to as "guys".

 

[Magdalia]

Transport for London decided some time ago to stop using the term "ladies and gentlemen" when making announcements to passengers. This is based on a policy of inclusion as it was thought that some people would feel left out. Many TOCs have now followed suit, with guards and drivers now beginning announcements with "good morning/afternoon/evening everyone".

I'm fully in agreement with this. But when are we going to get a suitable gender neutral replacement for the equally cringeworthy Sir and Madam?

 

[Gloster]

I sometimes hear passengers informally addressed as "guys" which seems nowadays to be a generic non-gender-specific term, but I find it irritating as if the information only applies to males. I wonder if many women like to be referred to as "guys".

I find this habit of addressing a group, usually of youngsters, as guys thoroughly irritating, particularly when it is clear it is comprised of both sexes. However, we don’t want to use the obvious ’guys and gals’, as that is too reminiscent of someone whose memory is best expunged. Nor would I like to hear, as I have sometimes, the pseudo-Deep South ‘y’ all’.

 

[Sorcerer]

I'm completely indifferent. It wouldn't have been something high on my list of concerns, but also not really something worth getting outraged about either (as some unfortunately may well do). For what it's worth, simply saying "your attention please" would be less formal and more to the point which is really what you want for a railway. I doubt many passengers wanting updates on their trains care about simple old English pleasantries.

 

[stadler]

TFL were supposed to get rid of "Ladies & Gentlemen" in 2017 but over six years later in 2023 it is still playing at quite a few places. Bayswater station still says "Ladies & Gentlemen" twice on the automated announcements before every train. I was there last week and it was still doing it. Also some staff still say it. So although it is used much less i think it will be a long time before it completely disappears.

Personally i really like "Ladies & Gentlemen" being used. Maybe i am in the minority but i like this phrase. It just sounds very polite and professional. I can not think of any other phrases to start an announcement which sound as polite and professional. Other terms like "Hello Everyone" or "Hello Everybody" or "Good Morning / Afternoon / Evening Everyone" or "Good Morning / Afternoon / Evening Everybody" etc all sound too casual. For other things they might be fine but i think for train announcements they are just too casual sounding.

If they really must get rid of "Ladies & Gentlemen" then i think they should just remove the phrase with no replacement phrase. So they should just say the announcement without any prefix wording at the beginning. This is what already happens for many announcements. If they need some starting prefix to get the attention of passengers then a chime or jingle could be used instead.

 

[ChrisC]

I find this habit of addressing a group, usually of youngsters, as guys thoroughly irritating, particularly when it is clear it is comprised of both sexes.

I completely agree with you there. It’s not just addressing groups of youngsters, as guys, but I find it even more irritating when groups of adults are addressed as guys. This is getting more and more prevalent when courses and meetings are led by younger adults. What really irritates me is on tv programmes when groups of animals or even plants are referred to as guys.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think the generation born in 1984 should take some time and read the book. However, maybe 'Hello Everybody and Listen up....' would be a far better phrase.

 

[trainophile]

If it's preluded with a "ding dong" or whatever, which usually makes us all prick up our ears for whatever's coming, there's really no need for any form of address. However "Good morning (afternoon/evening) everyone" would usually suffice.

 

[PupCuff]

I don't like "ladies and gentlemen". I feel it comes across as very stale and unwelcoming; if you were speaking to a group of people face to face you wouldn't walk up to them and introduce yourself with it, you'd say "good morning" or "hello" or whatever. I did work with someone though who started every announcement with a shrieked "Deeeeee-ar Cuzzzzztomerrrrrrrrs", which I think was worse.

 

[dangie]

I sometimes hear passengers informally addressed as "guys" which seems nowadays to be a generic non-gender-specific term, but I find it irritating as if the information only applies to males. I wonder if many women like to be referred to as "guys".

I dislike how ‘guys’ is used to refer to both sexes. When I was but a lad, males were ‘guys’ & females were ‘gals’.
Having said this, using the term ‘guys & gals’ can bring up memories of Saville, so maybe best not to use it.

I originate from the Northern half of the country. Males are often called ‘mate or buddy‘ etc, females ‘pet or m’duck’ etc. My female dentist calls me ‘sweetheart’. I love it.

None of these terms are meant to offend. Maybe it’s because of my age (72) but I feel it’ll be a sad day when none of these greetings are allowed.

 

[Ediswan]

A spoken preamble gives passengers an opportunity to tune in to the speaker's accent.

 

[Revilo]

What would happen if (shock horror) a driver or guard actually did say ‘ladies and gentlemen’? Would it be any worse than what might happen to the tube driver who incited support for Hamas? It’s depressing how even simple things like train announcements have now become political and controversial.

 

[birchesgreen]

I like ladies and gentlemen, its polite and we need more politeness in this country.

 

[Purple Train]

What would happen if (shock horror) a driver or guard actually did say ‘ladies and gentlemen’? Would it be any worse than what might happen to the tube driver who incited support for Hamas? It’s depressing how even simple things like train announcements have now become political and controversial.

There was a thread on this a while ago, and the guard in question (from my understanding) got thrown under the bus somewhat.

Personally, I think there are bigger fish to fry. It's not actively exclusive (the speaker is not cackling maniacally and going, "Mwahahahahaha, I shall spite everyone who identifies as neither!") so there are far bigger linguistic problems to sort out (regardless of one's views on gender issues, which is a topic I'm sure the mods would rather we left alone on this thread).

I like ladies and gentlemen, its polite and we need more politeness in this country.

Agreed.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I do say it and will keep saying it. It was always a kind of joyous euphemism, and perfectly well understood that the vast majority of those thus addressed were neither "ladies" nor "gentleman" as traditionally understood: it's part of the playful politeness of British etiquette. And a world apart from the humourless, joyless , grey, authoritarianism that is in vogue among those who wish to dictate how how other people speak at present.

 

[trainJam]

Over the past few years I have been recognising the same guard by his voice who always goes "ladies and gents" (I won't name company in case it is against policy).

"Hello" feels too casual. Good morning/afternoon/evening is just about acceptable.

If something is needed, for instance to allow passengers to tune in, bring back chimes.
"Your attention Please" is used on Transport for Wales 158s, but I seem to remember there used to be a nice chime.

X, this is X (if appropriate, where X is the station) - good to repeat as well as being an intro.

I've also heard "This is the/your (senior) conductor/TM speaking..."

 

[Bantamzen]

Its probably only a matter of time before the phrase "everyone" will upset some people......

Personally I object to the morning being instantly described as "good". If I'm on my morning commute chances I've not had enough coffee and the morning is far from being good. I demand my rights for the mornings not to be arbitrarily declared as good....

(P.S. Just in case anyone didn't get the sarcasm of the above, it was sarcasm, although I'll probably be cancelled for being sarcastic)

 

[richa2002]

Is this post a wind-up? If you are so self-obsessed that you think "ladies and gentleman" is some intentional jibe to make you feel left out, you need to get over yourself. You're really not as important as you think.

 

[birchesgreen]

Is this post a wind-up? If you are so self-obsessed that you think "ladies and gentleman" is some intentional jibe to make you feel left out, you need to get over yourself. You're really not as important as you think.

People take everything so seriously nowadays.

 

[NorthKent1989]

What’s so bad about ladies and gentlemen? It’s a polite term, much rather hear that than “hello everybody” or worse still “hello guys” which is really a term for men, and not for women and plenty women in my life hate being called “guy”.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I like ladies and gentlemen, its polite and we need more politeness in this country.

I totally agree. It comes across to me as polite, respectful, and professional. I would also suspect that, because of the connotations of ladies and gentlemen being well behaved, referring to passengers in this way may very slightly help to dis-incentivise antisocial behaviour on trains.

I agree completely that ladies and gentlemen should no longer be used, as not only does it refer explicitly to adults of both sexes, it also leaves out younger people and those who neither qualify as, or identify as a lady or a gentleman. Quite
frankly it is a very outdated term that belongs in the dustbin.

You do realise that what you're dismissing as 'belongs in the dustbin' is nothing more the version of English that people of an older generation have always used, and which many continue to use simply because it's the language they speak. Would you deliberately insult speakers of other languages by telling them that their language 'belongs in the dustbin'? If not, why do you think it's OK to tell older English speakers that about their language?

What do other members think?

Personally I have no objection at all to TfL or any other body starting announcements with expressions such as 'good afternoon everybody' etc. It's clear and concise. But I do strongly object to time and resources that could be being used to improve our services instead being diverted into things like trying to change the wording on announcements out a sense of political correctness that is itself dismissive and insulting towards part of the population.

 

[ChrisC]

What’s so bad about ladies and gentlemen? It’s a polite term, much rather hear that than “hello everybody” or worse still “hello guys” which is really a term for men, and not for women and plenty women in my life hate being called “guy”.

“Hello guys” would be terrible, but even worse would be “Hi guys”.

 

[Falcon1200]

What’s so bad about ladies and gentlemen? It’s a polite term

It comes across to me as polite, respectful, and professional.

I agree too; Treating all passengers as valued customers deserving of respect, no matter what their actual social status.

 

[dangie]

It seems a little odd to me that some find certain announcement terms offensive, unacceptable or outdated, when they have no problem with the increased swearing and bad language which blights everyday life.