Lancaster Gate Station

[TrainGeekUK]

Lancaster Gate station always seems to be shut these days due to staff unavailability.

They must be on for a record for the number of days a tube station has been shut.

 

[Tubeboy]

Either no staff, or there are staff, but they are moved to a busier station nearby. I’m not sure which stations are part of the cover group, maybe Bond St or Notting Hill Gate. Reduces the overall inconvenience. It’s not good, but that’s the reality. So many stations are run on overtime. Not enough staff is the issue.

 

[Recessio]

Really wish they would do a better job announcing when stations are closed, even if at short notice, is that hard to put a sign up or get the drivers to make announcements? How can a line be "good service" if some stations are shut?

 

[endicomark69@g]

When a Union says it's industrial action is about cuts in staff numbers and leaving so many positions vacant perhaps the media might want to pay attention and start noticing things like this. Can't keep places open without trained bods to do so.

 

[Turtle]

Really wish they would do a better job announcing when stations are closed, even if at short notice, is that hard to put a sign up or get the drivers to make announcements? How can a line be "good service" if some stations are shut?

Which is way the phrase "Good Service" should never have seen the light of day. The correct description is Scheduled Service with amendments as required by circumstances.

 

[Mojo]

Which is way the phrase "Good Service" should never have seen the light of day. The correct description is Scheduled Service with amendments as required by circumstances.

This would unlikely be an accurate description given that the service varies very frequently from that which is timetabled for a variety of reasons in particular to represent the overall best interests of the service.

The line service status represents the train service, and there is a separate tab on the TfL website which reflects the current station updates, such as full station closures and part station closures.

 

[Gaelan]

The line service status represents the train service, and there is a separate tab on the TfL website which reflects the current station updates, such as full station closures and part station closures.

This feels like it's letting pedantry get ahead of a good user experience - broadly speaking I just want to know whether I can get a train from A to B, it doesn't really matter which of "A", "to", or "B" has failed. Obviously once I know there's a failure, what I do next depends on the details of the failure - but there should be one place that definitively indicates if there's a short-term problem or not.

Obviously things are different for longer-term failure, as you don't want to show a problem with the Northern line throughout the Kentish Town closure, but if a station is going to close randomly on short notice, that should be in the prominent place people are already looking.

 

[Mojo]

This feels like it's letting pedantry get ahead of a good user experience - broadly speaking I just want to know whether I can get a train from A to B, it doesn't really matter which of "A", "to", or "B" has failed. Obviously once I know there's a failure, what I do next depends on the details of the failure - but there should be one place that definitively indicates if there's a short-term problem or not.

Given this argument, why then therefore would you expect the service status to change to reflect a station closure, thus requiring a user of the Central line to "drill down," to get more information, where the vast majority of journeys on a given line (except for the Waterloo & City which would show as Suspended in the event of either station being closed in any case) will not involve any of the closed stations?

 

[Gaelan]

Given this argument, why then therefore would you expect the service status to change to reflect a station closure, thus requiring a user of the Central line to "drill down," to get more information, where the vast majority of journeys on a given line (except for the Waterloo & City which would show as Suspended in the event of either station being closed in any case) will not involve any of the closed stations?

I'm not familiar with the technical underpinnings of the status display, so I'm not sure how difficult this would be, but surely the top-level message for the Central line could be "Lancaster Gate station closed" (or "station closure" if they can't do something that long/specific)?

 

[Mojo]

I'm not familiar with the technical underpinnings of the status display, so I'm not sure how difficult this would be, but surely the top-level message for the Central line could be "Lancaster Gate station closed"

This doesn't however say what the service status is. If you are suggesting that if there is a good service, this be replaced with a list of station closures, then this would be confusing because how would you then handle a part suspension, or delays, where stations are still closed?

(or "station closure" if they can't do something that long/specific)

Again, I'm not quite sure how this helps. The present situation reflects the service status for the overwhelming majority of customer journeys, this would require people to "drill down" and find out what is actually affected.

 

[Gaelan]

This doesn't however say what the service status is. If you are suggesting that if there is a good service, this be replaced with a list of station closures, then this would be confusing because how would you then handle a part suspension, or delays, where stations are still closed?

Again, I'm not quite sure how this helps. The present situation reflects the service status for the overwhelming majority of customer journeys, this would require people to "drill down" and find out what is actually affected.

Actually, isn't this already an issue? Currently on TfL's website, the Northern line is listed as "severe delays", but drilling down reveals that it only applies to just the High Barnet branch, and the Northern line is in fact just fine in zone 1, the Edgware branch, and everywhere south of zone 1.

Admittedly I have no clue what the usage patterns on the Northern line are like (or anywhere on the tube really, I'm in Scotland!), but assuming the branches get roughly equal usage, this requires roughly 3/4 of the Northern line's users to drill down to see that the line's actually fine (or even more, if a significant number of Northern line journeys are exclusively in zone 1).

I think what's really needed is for the for the status to display one or more issues, each with a specific location, eg:

• "Lancaster Gate station closed" (implying good service elsewhere)
• "Severe delays throughout, Lancaster Gate station closed"
• "Severe delays on High Barnet branch, Battersea Power Station station closed"

But admittedly that's definitely going to require big technical changes, especially considering the variety of places this data is shown (e.g. Thameslink on-train PIS!).

Given the current situation, though, my inclination is that it's better to tell people too much (and require them to drill down) than to tell them everything is fine when it definitely isn't.

 

[TFN]

I believe the current system of ”Good Service”, “Part Closure” or whatever is perfectly fine.

The scrolling text at the bottom is way too small and has information about broken lifts, national rail information AND closed station. I feel that closed stations should be prioritised as a separate section.

(The photo shows an example of a TfL status update board).

 

[321over360]

I believe the current system of ”Good Service”, “Part Closure” or whatever is perfectly fine.

The scrolling text at the bottom is way too small and has information about broken lifts, national rail information AND closed station. I feel that closed stations should be prioritised as a separate section.

(The photo shows an example of a TfL status update board).

The TFL Status boards could easily accomodate currently closed stations instead of just a giant blue screen with giant text saying "good service on all/all other lines"

Do the Platform departure boards indicate whether certain stations are closed? Cos newer ones tend to just give the trains due, whilst older style Departure screens can accomodate service issues at the bottom which must be able to include closed stations, as i know the Central Line has a fair percentage of older style departure screens still in use

 

[Chris M]

Actually, isn't this already an issue? Currently on TfL's website, the Northern line is listed as "severe delays", but drilling down reveals that it only applies to just the High Barnet branch, and the Northern line is in fact just fine in zone 1, the Edgware branch, and everywhere south of zone 1.

It's even worse than this for London Overground. I recall walking through Bank station hearing an announcement that "London Overground is part suspended" with no further details given. At the time I was headed for the Watford DC line so this was potentially relevant information. I decided to continue my journey anyway, and when I got to Euston I found that it was the Romford-Upminster shuttle that was suspended and the entire rest of the Overground was running a good service.

 

[Leisurefirst]

It was shut again yesterday (Tues) afternoon...

 

[Mojo]

Actually, isn't this already an issue? Currently on TfL's website, the Northern line is listed as "severe delays", but drilling down reveals that it only applies to just the High Barnet branch, and the Northern line is in fact just fine in zone 1, the Edgware branch, and everywhere south of zone 1.

Given that with only a few exceptions, changing the service status will affect multiple stations and a fair number of journeys, as opposed to just the closure of one station.

Also consider that, in most cases, for customers to reach a destination near a closed station, they are likely better off remaining on their intended line to either walk or catch a bus (ticket acceptance is always arranged on London Buses to/from stations either side), as opposed to avoiding the line or needing to take a completely different route which is what the service status is there for. In the instance of Lancaster Gate, yes you could possibly go to Paddington but depending on where you’re going it would probably be quicker to alight at stations either side and continue your journey at street level.

Do the Platform departure boards indicate whether certain stations are closed? Cos newer ones tend to just give the trains due, whilst older style Departure screens can accomodate service issues at the bottom which must be able to include closed stations, as i know the Central Line has a fair percentage of older style departure screens still in use

It depends on the line. The Central line, can, and does, push through updates from the Line Information Specialist desk in the Service Control Centre. I’m not sure but I would imagine all other modernised lines can? This appears as scrolling text at the bottom of all displays on the line. Station staff can also add their own.

 

[PsychoMouse]

It was shut again yesterday (Tues) afternoon...

It's been shut pretty much every day for the past month. Holland Park and Queensway are also frequently shut.

 

[thomalex]

It's been shut pretty much every day for the past month. Holland Park and Queensway are also frequently shut.

The thing is with this is it becomes so unreliable that fewer people then use it, then due to fewer users it is more frequently closed and that cycle repeats until it’s shut pretty much every day as you say. You can’t operate a transport network like this.

If TfL don’t have the staff I’d close it permanently and then when they’ve sorted themselves out let everyone know and reopen it permanently. It might also help reliability of surrounding stations if Lancaster Gate is taken out for now.

 

[SunSeeker]

Lancaster Gate will be shut the whole of next week.. from this Sunday to next Saturday. Yes shut 24hrs a day for 7 days straight.

Mainly due to staff unavailability but also the impact of the new rosters with lower staff numbers, as well as a couple of other things that I can't mention.

My cover group - Shepherd's Bush up to Marble Arch - are currently in dispute with the company due to new rosters so expect a lot more closures.

 

[londiscape]

Has there been a big drop in passenger usage at Lancaster Gate since Crossrail opened?

Always thought LG was a bit more important than it looked at first sight, as it was always a good way to get between Paddington mainline station and east/west Central line stations, but wouldn't be surprised if Crossrail has mopped a lot of that up towards the eastern side.

 

[TFN]

Lancaster Gate was always useful to me to get to Paddington during Night Tube hours. I wasn't the only person to use it at those times for that reason.

 

[Mikey C]

And Lancaster Gate is a handy way to access Hyde Park. I imagine it gets busier when there are events there such as concerts and Winter Wonderland

 

[rebmcr]

My cover group - Shepherd's Bush up to Marble Arch - are currently in dispute with the company due to new rosters so expect a lot more closures.

Working to rule and/or overtime ban by the sounds of it?

 

[Tubeboy]

There’s an RMT overtime ban across all of LU 1-7 June.

 

[JonathanH]

Also consider that, in most cases, for customers to reach a destination near a closed station, they are likely better off remaining on their intended line to either walk or catch a bus (ticket acceptance is always arranged on London Buses to/from stations either side), as opposed to avoiding the line or needing to take a completely different route which is what the service status is there for.

What ticket acceptance is that? Hardly anyone would be using a paper ticket on the underground. Do they get a refund if travelling on Oyster / Contactless and they have to use a bus between Marble Arch and Lancaster Gate?. How does anyone prove that a subsequent (or previous) bus journey is connected with the closure?

 

[Mojo]

What ticket acceptance is that? Hardly anyone would be using a paper ticket on the underground. Do they get a refund if travelling on Oyster / Contactless and they have to use a bus between Marble Arch and Lancaster Gate?. How does anyone prove that a subsequent (or previous) bus journey is connected with the closure?

The most obvious example for Lancaster Gate would be a National Rail ticket with Cross-London transfer.

 

[JonathanH]

The most obvious example for Lancaster Gate would be a National Rail ticket with Cross-London transfer.

Yes, although I note that someone using Oyster / Contactless in the same situation turning up at Lancaster Gate from Paddington and being told to get a bus to Marble Arch would not only end up having to pay for the bus, but also lose any benefit of an out of station interchange from Paddington, with no recompense.

 

[Horizon22]

Lancaster Gate is always one of the first to go on the Central line, along with Chancery Lane. With no direct transfers, staff are likely moved to other more strategic locations to ensure they open and are at minimum numbers.

I've seen it in the early morning when the driver announces one or the other (or both!) are shut and presumably the site reaches minimum numbers in the interim and without any other announcement the train stops there as usual!

Has there been a big drop in passenger usage at Lancaster Gate since Crossrail opened?

Always thought LG was a bit more important than it looked at first sight, as it was always a good way to get between Paddington mainline station and east/west Central line stations, but wouldn't be surprised if Crossrail has mopped a lot of that up towards the eastern side.

I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I think what's really needed is for the for the status to display one or more issues, each with a specific location

Including all issues regarding step-free access, I presume?

 

[Horizon22]

Including all issues regarding step-free access, I presume?

Also on the map but much better graphically shown on the TfL Go app.

Big exclamation mark 'circle blob' for stations closed with step-free access issues being marked with the accessible symbol crossed out 'circle blob'.