Large size Intercity rail tickets

[adc82140]

Back in the 90s I remember getting Intercity tickets printed on larger stock, similar size to the SNCF ones. I'm sure this particular type of ticket has a name. Anyway, in the era of e-ticketing and ticket barriers, they seem to have fallen out of use. When were they phased out?

 

[urpert]

Were these ELGAR tickets or am I conflating two things?

 

[JonathanH]

Anyway, in the era of e-ticketing and ticket barriers, they seem to have fallen out of use. When were they phased out?

They were still issued into the early 2000s for online purchases delivered by post. Passengers would be given an accompanying gate pass where necessary.

Discussed here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...an-airline-boarding-card.251914/#post-6328900

The suggestion in this thread is that they continued to be issued until about 2008. Maybe 2009 - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/domestic-tickets-delivered-by-post.28562/#post-377478

 

[Snow1964]

They were around in 1980s too, used to travel from University at Coventry to visit my parents, and there were big table top racks in the middle of ticket office, and my parents little station, New Milton had its own pre printed tickets.

When I did the journey in reverse and bought a ticket at New Milton, they used the little Edmundsen tickets, and had to write Coventry on a blank.

Always amused me the little station had tickets to it, a big city didn't.

Those little tickets did cause problems though, I managed to cause a big queue at Clapham Junction ticket office needing a single to Coventry with student railcard one Saturday night, somebody had moved the fare book, and he had to find the keys to find another in a cupboard, then had to hand write the ticket. Those were the days

 

[MichaelAMW]

They were around in 1980s too, used to travel from University at Coventry to visit my parents, and there were big table top racks in the middle of ticket office, and my parents little station, New Milton had its own pre printed tickets.

When I did the journey in reverse and bought a ticket at New Milton, they used the little Edmundsen tickets, and had to write Coventry on a blank.

Always amused me the little station had tickets to it, a big city didn't.

Those little tickets did cause problems though, I managed to cause a big queue at Clapham Junction ticket office needing a single to Coventry with student railcard one Saturday night, somebody had moved the fare book, and he had to find the keys to find another in a cupboard, then had to hand write the ticket. Those were the days

You had an NCR 51 ticket from Milton Keynes and NCR 21 from New Milton. Both were validated by being printed by what was effectively an NCR cash register, although cash wasn't kept in it. NCR 21 printed date, price and a machine number, and all other details were on the printed stock, including ticket type, class and any discount, as well as origin and destination (these could be written in if the station didn't have printed stock, either This Station to BLANK or BLANK to BLANK). These were very similar to Edmonson card tickets in the way they were used, except that the price as well as the date was printed on the ticket. They were the same size. NCR 51 only had the destination so a bunch more info had to be printed on by the NCR machine.

 

[driver9000]

I remember them being referred to as Tribute tickets presumably after the operating system used to issue them. Tickets bought via telephone or online and sent by post were usually this type of ticket.

 

[SargeNpton]

ATB (Airline Ticketing & Boarding) was the name sometimes applied to these tickets, as that is where the size originated.

 

[adc82140]

Thank you. I now have a name for them! I had FGW seat reaservations printed on them in the early 2000s from the Paddington travel centre, and some Eurostar tickets from Rail Europe until about 2006/7

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. I now have a name for them! I had FGW seat reaservations printed on them in the early 2000s from the Paddington travel centre, and some Eurostar tickets from Rail Europe until about 2006/7

I'm pretty sure that when I bought a Eurostar ticket from one of their ticket machines in St Pancras in the Eurostar area in May 2023 it was issued on this same large size ticket.

 

[greyman42]

ATB (Airline Ticketing & Boarding) was the name sometimes applied to these tickets, as that is where the size originated.

If i remember correctly, If you bought a single then the top right hand corner of the ticket was already "clipped" whereas a return would have the full ticket intact, if that makes sense.

 

[SargeNpton]

If i remember correctly, If you bought a single then the top right hand corner of the ticket was already "clipped" whereas a return would have the full ticket intact, if that makes sense.

Don't recall that on the ATB tickets. It did happen on the earlier generation "InterCity" sized tickets though.

 

[greyman42]

Don't recall that on the ATB tickets. It did happen on the earlier generation "InterCity" sized tickets though.

That will be what i am thinking of then.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Yes, I remember those tickets when my Mum brought them for our Blackpool trip in 1999. Was confused to see the same design for our Eurostar trip a year later.

Does anyone remember the blue BR ticket? I say BR but this would have been around 2001-2003. It was a standard rail ticket but instead of the orange top and bottom, it was a dark blue.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does anyone remember the blue BR ticket?

Weren't they used for seat reservations?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are these - top right of the image - the ones we are talking about here?

Image shows a variety of old tickets from a Google Images search with a set of old large format InterCity tickets enlarged.

 

[Peterthegreat]

THe large tickets were a joint development between European Passenger Services and InterCity. They included both the origin/destination of the ticket with the ability to show a seat reservation. Until then it required two transactions and two separate tickets.

 

[SargeNpton]

Just remembered that thre was a thread on here a few months ago about the same subject: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ticket-the-size-of-an-airline-boarding-card.251914/

This image was part of that thread, showing an InterCity ATB ticket:

 

[30907]

Are these - top right of the image - the ones we are talking about here?

Image shows a variety of old tickets from a Google Images search with a set of old large format InterCity tickets enlarged.

View attachment 147454

No, these were airline size (or UIC coupon size - the format is still in use and has been transferred to pdf e-tickets), so 1/3 A4 (in portrait).

 

[Taunton]

The tickets at top right of the illustration above were introduced around the late 1960s, known as NCR tickets after the machine manufacturer. We had a thread about these here in the past. They lasted for quite a time. One of the pioneer installations (maybe the absolute first) was at Taunton, the BR PR people tipped off the local Westward Television ITV company, and there was a short moment on the local evening news which we all tuned in to see, showing the first ones being issued by those we knew!

 

[AY1975]

At least in the last few years of BR in the late 1980s and early '90s there were also tickets issued as a coupon or a series of coupons in a booklet of similar size to those issued on Eurostar/SNCF style ticket stock mentioned above.

I would guess that those tickets issued in a booklet were issued by Rail Appointed Travel Agents (remember them?) and either collected in person or sent to the holder by post. I don't ever remember being issued with a ticket in this format myself, at least for a UK domestic journey, but I remember seeing people using them.

That was also the standard format for rail/sea/rail tickets issued by British Rail International in those days, though. As I recall they were issued as separate coupons for the rail and sea part of the journey (with the sea coupon usually being detached, and often exchanged for a ferry boarding card, when you checked in for the ferry).

Not sure if any Rail Appointed Travel Agents still exist these days, but I suspect that they were killed off by rail privatisation and the internet.

 

[ChrisC]

Just remembered that thre was a thread on here a few months ago about the same subject: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ticket-the-size-of-an-airline-boarding-card.251914/

This image was part of that thread, showing an InterCity ATB ticket:

I used to like those tickets when I was doing a long complicated journey with a number of changes of train. It was good to have all the train times and reservations listed clearly in one place. It was very useful before online information became more readily available.

 

[route101]

I recall last getting these tickets from GNER in 2005. You were able to get these size of tickets at Glasgow Central toO

 

[181]

At least in the last few years of BR in the late 1980s and early '90s there were also tickets issued as a coupon or a series of coupons in a booklet of similar size to those issued on Eurostar/SNCF style ticket stock mentioned above.

I would guess that those tickets issued in a booklet were issued by Rail Appointed Travel Agents (remember them?) and either collected in person or sent to the holder by post. I don't ever remember being issued with a ticket in this format myself, at least for a UK domestic journey, but I remember seeing people using them.

That was also the standard format for rail/sea/rail tickets issued by British Rail International in those days, though. As I recall they were issued as separate coupons for the rail and sea part of the journey (with the sea coupon usually being detached, and often exchanged for a ferry boarding card, when you checked in for the ferry).

Not sure if any Rail Appointed Travel Agents still exist these days, but I suspect that they were killed off by rail privatisation and the internet.

I think SailRail tickets across the Irish Sea, if bought from the ferry company rather than the railway, are still like that (albeit with a single coupon for the whole journey). Certainly they were a few years ago when I last bought one that way. (The origin and destination are written in by hand, not always very legibly).

 

[Lirtis]

This example might be of interest, of a late-period ELGAR-issued ticket. There has been some confusion about this, but Elgar was the Eurostar reservation system which was also available for travel agents to use for domestic travel between 2000 and 2008.

 

[stadler]

Eurostar still use these tickets even these days. I always buy my Eurostar tickets on the day from the Eurostar ticket office at St Pancras and they still always give me these huge airline style tickets. So they are still in use by Eurostar these days. I think many mainland European railways still use them too.

 

[Trackman]

This example might be of interest, of a late-period ELGAR-issued ticket. There has been some confusion about this, but Elgar was the Eurostar reservation system which was also available for travel agents to use for domestic travel between 2000 and 2008.

These are the ones I thought the OP was talking about.
What on earth does 'Humperdinck' mean on the ticket? And don't say Jerry Dorsey

 

[Bletchleyite]

What on earth does 'Humperdinck' mean on the ticket? And don't say Jerry Dorsey

It's the name of the person who booked it - appears in this case it might indeed be good old Englebert (or it's a sample print that's had his name put on it, or whoever booked it falsely gave that name in the manner of Mickey Mouse/Donald Duck).

 

[richw]

Back 20 years ago living in a town on an unmanned branch where the nearest rail office was 12 miles away I regularly used to book my advanced travel through a local independent travel agent in town.
They printed tickets in the travel agent branch on the above pictured airline style tickets.

 

[northwichcat]

It's the name of the person who booked it - appears in this case it might indeed be good old Englebert (or it's a sample print that's had his name put on it, or whoever booked it falsely gave that name in the manner of Mickey Mouse/Donald Duck).

Looks like a real ticket to me, even with a slightly smudged stamp from the conductor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like a real ticket to me, even with a slightly smudged stamp from the conductor.

It does indeed. I don't know what gave rise to it being under that name, but that's definitely what that field is.