Late Night/Early Morning TfW Services & Warrington Bank Quay

[The Prisoner]

Looking at late night TfW Manchester to Chester and vice versa services the 2225 Manchester Airport to Chester service calls at Bank Quay at 2322, the 2109 Birmingham International to Manchester Piccadilly via Chester service calls in the opposite direction at 2350.

Then the 2320 Manchester Airport to Holyhead service stops at all the usual stations between Manchester and Chester (Newton-le-Willows, Earlestown, Runcorn East, Frodsham and Helsby) but doesn't call at Warrington - the biggest intermediate stop, passing by at 0008, just 18 minutes after a service has stopped in the other direction. The 0026 Manchester Piccadilly to Chester has the same stopping pattern passing through Bank Quay without stopping.

Early morning the 0351 and 0455 Chester to Manchester Airport takes in all the usual stops and misses Warrington Bank Quay. The 0525 Manchester Airport to Chester service is the first to call in either direction at 0619.

I appreciate this will be down to station opening hours - obviously closure hours are 2350 (last service of the day - the TfW service mentioned above) to 0557 (first Avanti service of the day). But surely as a town of over 200,000 services shouldn't be shuffling through and not stopping for the sake of 18 minutes extra opening (2320 Airport to Holyhead) which would link up Manchester, Warrington, Chester and North Wales.

Appreciate many of the other stops served will be unmanned, but how much would it cost for a couple of members of staff to stay open and allow these services to stop? And why even bother running services that fail to serve the largest intermediate stop on the route (Warrington is double the size of Chester).

Just odd.

Any other examples of services skipping the big stations, but serving the much smaller ones?

 

[dodecahedron67]

I believe the calls aren't there in case there needs to be a diversion via Crewe or Nantwich?

 

[185143]

I believe the calls aren't there in case there needs to be a diversion via Crewe or Nantwich?

It's solely down to Bank Quay not being staffed.

Frodsham, Helsby, Runcorn East ect, would all be affected if the service were diverted.

 

[dalesrail]

Services departing from Bank Quay require a dispatcher, and none are on duty at those times. There is also only one way in and out of thr station, and this is locked later on.

 

[The Prisoner]

Services departing from Bank Quay require a dispatcher, and none are on duty at those times. There is also only one way in and out of thr station, and this is locked later on.

But surely for the sake of 28 minutes at least the 2320 Manchester Airport to Holyhead could call at 0018? Appreciate the reasons for the other services missing the stop. It means any customers for North Wales and the ferry to Dublin have to leave pretty much an hour earlier and hang around at Chester. Should (and is there?) a mechanism for TfW subsidising the station being kept open with Avanti staff?

 

[berneyarms]

But surely for the sake of 28 minutes at least the 2320 Manchester Airport to Holyhead could call at 0018? Appreciate the reasons for the other services missing the stop. It means any customers for North Wales and the ferry to Dublin have to leave pretty much an hour earlier and hang around at Chester. Should (and is there?) a mechanism for TfW subsidising the station being kept open with Avanti staff?

Anyone going for the ferry to Dublin has to be on the 22:17 departure from Warrington in any case, and then directly connect onto the 22:57 Chester to Holyhead service, as the later train to Holyhead that this thread relates to doesn't connect into the ferries.

 

[Krokodil]

But surely for the sake of 28 minutes at least the 2320 Manchester Airport to Holyhead could call at 0018? Appreciate the reasons for the other services missing the stop. It means any customers for North Wales and the ferry to Dublin have to leave pretty much an hour earlier and hang around at Chester. Should (and is there?) a mechanism for TfW subsidising the station being kept open with Avanti staff?

As a PP has said, the 2320 is not a boat train. How many passengers do you think want to travel from Warrington at that time of night? There's no connection from Scotland, the last train from Glasgow connects with the previous departure. Anyone travelling from Manchester to Warrington can use Warrington Central.

The only passengers who would use such a service would be local traffic to/from Earlestown or Runcorn East. Fares to each are less than £4 and most passengers won't pay anyway so do you really think that the extra staffing cost can be justified?

 

[Class 170101]

The only passengers who would use such a service would be local traffic to/from Earlestown or Runcorn East. Fares to each are less than £4 and most passengers won't pay anyway so do you really think that the extra staffing cost can be justified?

And anyone connecting into it as it departs from Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[Krokodil]

And anyone connecting into it as it departs from Manchester Piccadilly.

Well as long as they aren't going to Warrington (and even then only if they can't use the 23:28 from Manchester Oxford Road to get to Warrington Central) then they can use 1D48 to get to any of the other stops.

 

[185]

Been noted several times recently that when late, the final London to Preston has had to be given not-to-call orders for Warrington and Wigan.

FirstGroup / Avanti immediately proceeded to blame the RMT for staff not working beyond their hours (on forced overtime).

The union stated that prior to FirstGroup / Avanti arriving & cutting staff the two stations were properly staffed by VT - so no need for overtime.

This has also resulted in the last Chester - Manchester given a not to call order (ie straight from Runcorn to Earlestown)

 

[The Prisoner]

Been noted several times recently that when late, the final London to Preston has had to be given not-to-call orders for Warrington and Wigan.

FirstGroup / Avanti immediately proceeded to blame the RMT for staff not working beyond their hours (on forced overtime).

The union stated that prior to FirstGroup / Avanti arriving & cutting staff the two stations were properly staffed by VT - so no need for overtime.

This has also resulted in the last Chester - Manchester given a not to call order (ie straight from Runcorn to Earlestown)

That makes more sense. Thank you.

Completely bonkers that a town of Warrington’s size is cut off because of this, but I feel semi comforted in being able to blame Avanti

 

[Krokodil]

Completely bonkers that a town of Warrington’s size is cut off because of this, but I feel semi comforted in being able to blame Avanti

It's hardly cut off from civilisation when there are trains to/from Liverpool and Manchester calling at Warrington Central after midnight.