Latest on colour blindness testing

[DazeK]

Hi all,

I have been super excited because I have passed the initial application form and have just completed my online SJT for the 2021 trainee train driver. So I've been researching and watching videos etc I found out that there is a very strict rule against any kind of colourblindness, no matter the severity. Can anyone confirm if this is still the case? I am completely gutted because I work with colour daily. For my current profession, I have to deal with pantones which involves accurately choosing colour with subtle differences. I do this everyday and I have never made a mistake or had a problem, ever. My job literally involves working with colour! However, when I do the ishihara test it flags me up as being mildly colourblind. I know this from when doing a medical for a fighter fighter role years ago. I failed but then went to a university to do a different colourblind 'arrangement' test and got 100% accuracy, so I passed the medical. I just can't understand how it is deemed fair, for someone who works with colour daily and has never had a problem, to fail the medical with a mild condition, when they allow people who may have sleep apnea through, or people who maybe drink alcohol, or have to wear glasses etc.

I just never thought this would ever effect my chances as it has never been a problem in anyway shape or form. I work with colour!!!

Yours truly gutted,

Trainee applicant

 

[Rockhopper]

Sadly if you cannot pass the ishihara test at your medical then I’m afraid you've got no chance of becoming a train driver.

 

[irish_rail]

How many plates do you get wrong. I usually have to have a second go at one or two plates, and long as you get it right then youd probably pass . Always worth giving it a shot as when i first joined the railway in a none safety critical role I failed ushiara partly because it confused me, I could see the numbers but got myself into a muddle. Next time I did the test for a safety critical role and I passed with flying colours ( pardon the pun).

 

[TheGoldfish]

I recently took the ishihara for a driver medical and found it to be quite a lot easier than the ones I tried on line ... although I’ve never failed it in either format I didn’t find the colour differences were that subtle on the version used at the medical ? .... just remember that sometimes there’s nothing there at all ... or just a wavy line .... so if you can’t see anything just say so rather than guess at a number you think it may resemble ?

 

[Virgin788]

I recently took the ishihara for a driver medical and found it to be quite a lot easier than the ones I tried on line ... although I’ve never failed it in either format I didn’t find the colour differences were that subtle on the version used at the medical ? .... just remember that sometimes there’s nothing there at all ... or just a wavy line .... so if you can’t see anything just say so rather than guess at a number you think it may resemble ?

There may be nothing there to you (with correct colour vision), but to someone with colour vision deficiency they may see a different number or pattern. That's the trick of the test.

 

[43066]

I passed the medical. I just can't understand how it is deemed fair, for someone who works with colour daily and has never had a problem, to fail the medical with a mild condition, when they allow people who may have sleep apnea through, or people who maybe drink alcohol, or have to wear glasses etc.

It’s fair because I wouldn’t want to be on a train being driven by someone who can’t reliably differentiate between red, yellow and green signal aspects. Would you?!

Train drivers are subject to stringent medical requirements - sleep apnoea would certainly need to be disclosed and occupational health would need to be satisfied that it didn’t pose a risk. Corrective lenses are fine (within limits), and drinking alcohol is also fine, as long as the D&A policy is complied with. Why wouldn’t it be?

 

[irish_rail]

There may be nothing there to you (with correct colour vision), but to someone with colour vision deficiency they may see a different number or pattern. That's the trick of the test.

But it is a fair point because the first time I took the test many many moons ago, I was so keen to pass that when I saw the plates with just wavy lines I was desperately trying to find numbers where I couldn't see them, that is one of the reasons I failed it first time. Soon as I realised that actually it was a good thing i wasnt seeing numbers on those particular plates I was able to pass the test.

 

[irish_rail]

It’s fair because I wouldn’t want to be on a train being driven by someone who can’t reliably differentiate between red, yellow and green signal aspects. Would you?!

Train drivers are subject to stringent medical requirements - sleep apnoea would certainly need to be disclosed and occupational health would need to be satisfied that it didn’t pose a risk. Corrective lenses are fine (within limits), and drinking alcohol is also fine, as long as the D&A policy is complied with. Why wouldn’t it be?

I think if train drivers were never allowed to drink alcohol , wear glasses , or have any kind of sleeping trouble there would be no one left to do the job!!!

 

[ComUtoR]

But it is a fair point because the first time I took the test many many moons ago, I was so keen to pass that when I saw the plates with just wavy lines I was desperately trying to find numbers where I couldn't see them

The wavy lines however, are supposed to be traced by finger. The person administering the test should ask you to trace the line.

 

[Rockhopper]

We had a very similar thread to this just last week.

 

[Eloise]

Thundering down the line at 125mph, signal changes from green to red, I'd quite like the driver to notice that. With colour blindness you can never guarantee you'd pick up the difference.

I work with one manager who is colour blind, there are certainly other jobs out there. His attitude is "train driving has never been an option" so they found a different career path on the railway.

 

[BloominMan]

Yes unfortunately if the ishara test is failed you you absolutely fail the medical.

Apologies in advance

 

[Rockhopper]

And the medical is one of the final hurdles to pass in the selection process...

 

[TheGoldfish]

And the medical is one of the final hurdles to pass in the selection process...

Yep that created a lot of anxiety for me ... to fail right at the end of the process on something you could have been made aware of right at the start ... would have been devastating...but luckily as was well !

I completely understand and accept the process though ... it is whst it is .... accept it or don’t put yourself through it ... nobody is forcing us

 

[43066]

Yep that created a lot of anxiety for me ... to fail right at the end of the process on something you could have been made aware of right at the start ... would have been devastating...but luckily as was well !

It’s really nothing to worry about. Just don’t turn up leathered, and don’t turn up colourblind.

 

[Marino]

It’s really nothing to worry about. Just don’t turn up leathered, and don’t turn up colourblind.

But the OP suggests that being colour blind is a mild condition compared to someone who drinks alcohol or wears glasses etc...

 

[irish_rail]

The wavy lines however, are supposed to be traced by finger. The person administering the test should ask you to trace the line.

Sorry I didn't mean the wavy lines, I meant the plates where there isn't actually a number visible to those with normal vision. I was just convinced that not being able to see a number was a problem which is why I was virtually making numbers up in a desperate attempt to pass, which ironically led to my failure. Luckily that wasnt for a safety critical role and so didn't matter when I failed and when later applying for driver I learnt from my mistakes the first time round.

 

[43066]

But the OP suggests that being colour blind is a mild condition compared to someone who drinks alcohol or wears glasses etc...

The OP “works with colour”. As a train driver I work with colour, too. Green is infinitely preferable!

There’s nothing quite like rounding a curve at 110mph and seeing a red.

I think to myself: “did I miss a single yellow, or has it gone back on me?”, as I bang it into emergency, and start praying.

My underpants then turn brown.

 

[Eloise]

That's the problem with colourblindness, you don't know what you are seeing, you could never be 100% sure.

 

[4F89]

The OP “works with colour”. As a train driver I work with colour, too. Green is infinitely preferable!

There’s nothing quite like rounding a curve at 110mph and seeing a red.

I think to myself: “did I miss a single yellow, or has it gone back on me?”, as I bang it into emergency, and start praying.

My underpants then turn brown.

I quite like reds, I'm being paid to sit and do nothing....

 

[43066]

I quite like reds, I'm being paid to sit and do nothing....

I hate reds (and yellows). TPWS+ is the snake that will bite my license.

I’m being paid not to balls up.

 

[Stigy]

Hi all,

I have been super excited because I have passed the initial application form and have just completed my online SJT for the 2021 trainee train driver. So I've been researching and watching videos etc I found out that there is a very strict rule against any kind of colourblindness, no matter the severity. Can anyone confirm if this is still the case? I am completely gutted because I work with colour daily. For my current profession, I have to deal with pantones which involves accurately choosing colour with subtle differences. I do this everyday and I have never made a mistake or had a problem, ever. My job literally involves working with colour! However, when I do the ishihara test it flags me up as being mildly colourblind. I know this from when doing a medical for a fighter fighter role years ago. I failed but then went to a university to do a different colourblind 'arrangement' test and got 100% accuracy, so I passed the medical. I just can't understand how it is deemed fair, for someone who works with colour daily and has never had a problem, to fail the medical with a mild condition, when they allow people who may have sleep apnea through, or people who maybe drink alcohol, or have to wear glasses etc.

I just never thought this would ever effect my chances as it has never been a problem in anyway shape or form. I work with colour!!!

Yours truly gutted,

Trainee applicant

If for arguments sake you ‘did’ get it wrong in your current job, would you potentially kill hundreds of people?

 

[ComUtoR]

which is why I was virtually making numbers up in a desperate attempt to pass, which ironically led to my failure.

Which is why I tend to limit my advice on these forums. There is a lot of pressure to pass and a lot of advice given leans towards cookie cutter answers to everything.

That pressure to pass leading you to 'make stuff up' should be a lesson for everyone to learn. Same can be said of the hearing test. A fair few people will recommend adding a few extra clicks. After learning how the test is being conducted, I can categorically say that adding clicks is a bad thing to do.

Medical standards are very important and are there not just for your own safety but the safety of others. They are very exacting and are often a very hard and deep line in the sand that cannot be crossed. Are they fair ? Probably not in some ways and they feel more unfair when your on the outside looking in.

Every one of us who does this job day in and day out can tell you how and why these things are important. As Eloise points out 125mph you need to be on the top of your game. At 20mph going into a major terminal that looks like a Christmas Tree is just as difficult.

There are no workarounds and no magic fixes.

 

[Stigy]

I hate reds (and yellows). TPWS+ is the snake that will bite my license.

I’m being paid not to balls up.

Changed to OSS+ now I believe....but that’s just me being pedantic

 

[4F89]

I hate reds (and yellows). TPWS+ is the snake that will bite my license.

I’m being paid not to balls up.

Indeed. Very difficult to balls up when you aren't moving though

 

[Eloise]

It does worry me people trying to find gaps in the process on this over and over. I couldn't live with myself if something did happen as I misread something.

Think I'll just stop reading these type of threads.

As for ballsing up... I don't move at my desk and still manage it!

 

[irish_rail]

It does worry me people trying to find gaps in the process on this over and over. I couldn't live with myself if something did happen as I misread something.

Think I'll just stop reading these type of threads.

As for ballsing up... I don't move at my desk and still manage it!

Too be fair the ishiahra test has long been criticised. That's why the airline industry uses the lantern test for pilots.
I don't think anyone is trying to find gaps, but for example in my case I was getting the test wrong purely because I didn't fully understand it and have since passed it over 20 times. I am just pointing out that ishiahra has floors in it.

 

[43066]

Indeed. Very difficult to balls up when you aren't moving though

Very fair point. I can’t decide whether you blokes on the freight have the best of this job.

Those twelve hour moves off spare, though, ouch!

 

[LCC106]

Reds are never good on your last trip before home!

 

[4F89]

Very fair point. I can’t decide whether you blokes on the freight have the best of this job.

Those twelve hour moves off spare, though, ouch!

No spare turns, just on call 24/7, lol