Leaf fall timetables

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infobleep

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Now that leaf fall season is upon us, at lest with South West Trains, I thought I'd create a thread and timetable changes across the country.

I see that South West Trains have decided all Cobham line trains from Guildford will depart 3 minutes passed the half hour, rather than 3 minutes earlier than they usually depart. I think this makes more sense so you know the trains will be 03 or 33 plus the additional 7.13 past. Of course they now usually depart at different times in peak morning rush hour rather than being totally uniform.

So 6.04, 6.34, 7.06, 7.14, 7.35, 8.07, 8.34.

Now to wait for the inevitable comment from someone about train companies not doing enough to deal with leaves. Yes I know Network Rail deal with it.

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TheEdge

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0500 becomes 0455
0530 becomes 0525
0600 becomes 0555
0624 becomes 0622
0648 becomes 0645
0705 becomes 0703
 
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Greater Anglia Norwich - London

0500 becomes 0455
0530 becomes 0525
0600 becomes 0555
0624 becomes 0622
0648 becomes 0645
0705 becomes 0703

And this year for the first time Salhouse, Roughton Road and Brandall Gardens become request stops for a few months (does not apply to short hauled sets).
 

infobleep

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And this year for the first time Salhouse, Roughton Road and Brandall Gardens become request stops for a few months (does not apply to short hauled sets).
Why not make them permanent request stops?

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Greater Anglia Norwich - London

0500 becomes 0455
0530 becomes 0525
0600 becomes 0555
0624 becomes 0622
0648 becomes 0645
0705 becomes 0703
I take it, on this line at least, as the morning goes on, the leaves become less of an issue. Unlike the Cobham line whereby they need to add roughly the same additional time throughout the day.

That is until 23.07. That service runs then rather than xx.04. It isn't timed into Surbiton any later. I assume they just hope it arrives on time.

I'm sure there is a good reason why it can't leave at 23.04. It's little variations like this that I find so interesting.

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abn444

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It's interesting that South West Trains now publish 'new' timetables for the leaf fall. Why don't they still do what they used to (and I believe still do for their big timetable book) and just have the relevant trains highlighted with how many minutes they are earlier when the leaf fall is on?
 

dk1

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Why not make them permanent request stops?

Because request stops are a pain. Brundall Gardens & Roughton Road almost always have somebody getting on or off & in the case of the first one it's only 7 minutes from Norwich so the guard will struggle to do tickets & check. We will end up saying "if you don't hear anything then stop anyway" so will be a complete waste of time.
 

infobleep

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I think this has been asked before but I can't remember the answer if so.

If a train runs non stop is it less affected by leaf fall? Is it the stop and starting of trains that causes the biggest issues to trains?

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Because request stops are a pain. Brundall Gardens & Roughton Road almost always have somebody getting on or off & in the case of the first one it's only 7 minutes from Norwich so the guard will struggle to do tickets & check. We will end up saying "if you don't hear anything then stop anyway" so will be a complete waste of time.
So it will be interesting to see how it works during the leaf fall period, taking into account what you've just said.

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dk1

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So it will be interesting to see how it works during the leaf fall period, taking into account what you've just said.

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We have to slow down to 10-15mph anyway for a request stop & are downloaded to make sure we do so it's still going to slip & struggle to get off anyway.
 

Deepgreen

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Now that leaf fall season is upon us, at lest with South West Trains, I thought I'd create a thread and timetable changes across the country.

I see that South West Trains have decided all Cobham line trains from Guildford will depart 3 minutes passed the half hour, rather than 3 minutes earlier than they usually depart. I think this makes more sense so you know the trains will be 03 or 33 plus the additional 7.13 past. Of course they now usually depart at different times in peak morning rush hour rather than being totally uniform.

So 6.04, 6.34, 7.06, 7.14, 7.35, 8.07, 8.34.

Now to wait for the inevitable comment from someone about train companies not doing enough to deal with leaves. Yes I know Network Rail deal with it.

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I'm confused by this - are you trying to say that they leave later during leaf fall? That is contrary to all the other leaf fall timetables I am aware of.
 

306024

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The leaves have hardly started to fall. When do they plan these timetables?

To get in the permanent timetable, about a year ahead. Trouble is the leaves do not always adhere to Network Rail's timetable production schedule.
 

berneyarms

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Northern and Merseyrail also have leaf fall timetables that have come into effect.
 

infobleep

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I'm confused by this - are you trying to say that they leave later during leaf fall? That is contrary to all the other leaf fall timetables I am aware of.
No they leave earlier between 1 to 4 minutes earlier in the morning peak and after that just 3 minutes earlier.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To get in the permanent timetable, about a year ahead. Trouble is the leaves do not always adhere to Network Rail's timetable production schedule.
Do leaves ever cause issues before the timetables come into force?

Given that engineering works may affect trains in the early morning, evening and at weekends, could they simply implement these changes a week or so in advance, once they know the likelihood of leaves falling and end it once they know the issue has gone away?

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tsr

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Do leaves ever cause issues before the timetables come into force?

Sometimes - and a number of other things can affect adhesion anyway, so sometimes it's just bad luck that poor adhesion may strike just before leaf fall (or at any random time of year!).

Likewise there have been days when leaf-fall RHTTs have been sent out and it's turned out that winter treatment trains would have been better. The overlap can be very tight sometimes.
 

infobleep

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Sometimes - and a number of other things can affect adhesion anyway, so sometimes it's just bad luck that poor adhesion may strike just before leaf fall (or at any random time of year!).

Likewise there have been days when leaf-fall RHTTs have been sent out and it's turned out that winter treatment trains would have been better. The overlap can be very tight sometimes.

I know what you mean about tight overlaps. The weather just isn't predictable enough in this country. I'm sure the prediction sometimes may say leaf fall and then it turns out, once out and about, that winter treatment was needed. Too late then..

Unless one train can ever be designed to switch between either type of treatment, whilst on the move, or the weather predictions can improve, not much could be done about it.

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dk1

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Another problem with Brundall Gardens becoming a temporary request stop is the LHCS that now ply this route so the following trains (SX) will have to stop as cannot operate to this practice.

From Norwich - 0652 0836 1036 1236 1640 1736 1806 2040
From Brundall Gdns - 0754 0940 1140 1340 1740 1840 2140
 

Deepgreen

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To get in the permanent timetable, about a year ahead. Trouble is the leaves do not always adhere to Network Rail's timetable production schedule.

No, but the leaves haven't started to fall in any problematical quantity over the bulk of the country until at least mid-November for decades. The season's becoming later and later all the time, so early October is very early to start the 'leaf-buster' running period. I think NR needs to improve its climate awareness.
 

Spartacus

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There's plenty coming down already in Yorkshire, gonna have to start clearing them off the driveway before long.
 

infobleep

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South West Trains are expecting issues over the next few days. Currently no trains between Aldershot and Ascot because of the slippery rails. That is leading to 30 minute delays.

Note there is a general problem of delays across the network but equally no issues are ongoing as a result of leaf fall.

Alterations to services on all routes

Due to poor railhead conditions:
Impact
Train services running across the whole South West Trains network may be delayed by up to 20 mins or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
During the autumn, the railway faces a unique problem due to leaf fall. When leaves collect around the railway, they can be swept under passing trains, and ground up under the wheels, forming a sort of slippery paste. This paste interferes with the adhesion between the wheels of trains and the rails, meaning the wheels slip when the train is speeding up, and that braking may not be as effective as it should be. Because of these considerations, trains are scheduled a little extra time on their journeys during the autumn. Nonetheless, some additional alterations may be necessary, particularly if trains become damaged by the wheels slipping during braking.

The team within our control structure responsible for monitoring and counteracting for poor weather has identified a high risk of railhead contamination over the next few days, and therefore we encourage all passengers to check their journeys before making them. At present, no issues are ongoing as a result of leaf fall.

For further information, please see http://www.networkrail.co.uk/timetables-and-travel/delays-explained/autumn/.
Additional Information
If you would like to make a comment or give us some feedback about your experience with us today, please email us at [email protected], 0345 6000 650 (option 4) or fill in the contact us webform http://po.st/ContactSWT

We want to make information better - tell us how! http://po.st/DisruptionSurvey

Have you been delayed by over an hour? Please see here for information about compensation - http://po.st/SWTCompensation
Last Updated:06/11/2016 17:26

Cancellations to services between Ascot and Aldershot

Due to poor railhead conditions between Ascot and Aldershot all lines are blocked.
Impact
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 30 mins or terminated at and started back from Aldershot. All stations between Ascot and Aldershot will not be served. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Due to poor rail head conditions in the Bagshot area, we are unable to operate trains between Ascot and Aldershot in both directions.

Customers can travel on Route 1 bus which operates between Aldershot and Camberley and passengers at Bagshot and Ascot are advised to contact the Help point for assistance.
We are in the process of arranging replacement road transport between Ascot and Aldershot in both directions.

Great Western Railway are accepting South West Trains ticket holders between Guildford and Reading in both directions.

We are sorry for the disruption to your journey this evening.
Additional Information
If you would like to make a comment or give us some feedback about your experience with us today, please email us at [email protected], 0345 6000 650 (option 4) or fill in the contact us webform http://po.st/ContactSWT

We want to make information better - tell us how! http://po.st/DisruptionSurvey

Have you been delayed by over an hour? Please see here for information about compensation - http://po.st/SWTCompensation
Last Updated:06/11/2016 18:15

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infobleep

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Is it going to be an especially long autumn this time then? :D
Lol. Now corrected. In my defence I was half asleep on the train.

I'm surprised the North Downs Line was running OK this evening. That's often affected by the weather at this time of year.

Hopefully it won't be that lines turn tomorrow when I am travelling on it again.

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AM9

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... Hopefully it won't be that lines turn tomorrow when I am travelling on it again.

Given that gale force winds are forecast for some of the south-east tomorrow, I suspect that the leaf fall will be kicked-off big time.
 

infobleep

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Given that gale force winds are forecast for some of the south-east tomorrow, I suspect that the leaf fall will be kicked-off big time.
I'm sure your right. Make for an interesting day

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hassaanhc

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Given that gale force winds are forecast for some of the south-east tomorrow, I suspect that the leaf fall will be kicked-off big time.

Trains in some areas were already struggling yesterday afternoon/evening after the rain and wind. London-bound services via Staines were all losing 5-10 minutes, plus the annual event of trains getting stuck around Bagshot! Certainly been a lot of leaves falling from trees for the last week around where I live.
 

DarloRich

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No, but the leaves haven't started to fall in any problematical quantity over the bulk of the country until at least mid-November for decades. The season's becoming later and later all the time, so early October is very early to start the 'leaf-buster' running period. I think NR needs to improve its climate awareness.

It has pretty good "climate awareness" aka weather forecasting but has to look over a national picture. While in the south the leafs are still on the trees (and some still green in the park near me) at home the trees are bare.

There are regional variations in the timetables and the services can change in frequency as needed. They start at different times and finish as late as early December if needed. The trains tend to start running around mid October and ramp up early November. There is also an interesting discussion between route, toc and supplier as to how many trains are actually needed.
 

Deepgreen

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Lol. Now corrected. In my defence I was half asleep on the train.

I'm surprised the North Downs Line was running OK this evening. That's often affected by the weather at this time of year.

Hopefully it won't be that lines turn tomorrow when I am travelling on it again.

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The NDL has seen a huge programme of tree felling and reduction over the last year or so, which may be having at least some beneficial effect.
 

infobleep

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The NDL has seen a huge programme of tree felling and reduction over the last year or so, which may be having at least some beneficial effect.
It must have worked as no delays this morning. Be intresting to know if the intensity of the wind today would have lead to issues that it been this time last year before the work.

It seems to point to Network Rail doing a good job.

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