Letter of notice of intention to prosecute

[Jazztrain2000]

At the start of March I was pulled over by a revenue protection officer working for Govia Thames-link Railway at London St Pancras station. My normal journey is St Albans City to St Pancras. He asked to see my ticket and then my railcard, as the ticket had been bought with a discount of the 16-25 railcard. I was unable to produce my railcard because it was at home, regardless the railcard had expired in September. I told the officer this and that I tried to renew it but simply forgot to do it after emailing the railcard help team, therefore I had been travelling since September 22 to March 23 (about 50 journeys, all of which were purchased with the 16-25 discount) with an expired railcard. I have now received a notice of intent to prosecute, I want to avoid going to court and am happy to pay any fee seen fit, wanted to get advice on what to include within the letter to maximise the chances of this. I have added the photos of the letter at the bottom of the thread, appreciate any advice and input

 

[WesternLancer]

At the start of March I was pulled over by a revenue protection officer working for Govia Thames-link Railway at London St Pancras station. My normal journey is St Albans City to St Pancras. He asked to see my ticket and then my railcard, as the ticket had been bought with a discount of the 16-25 railcard. I was unable to produce my railcard because it was at home, regardless the railcard had expired in September. I told the officer this and that I tried to renew it but simply forgot to do it after emailing the railcard help team, therefore I had been travelling since September 22 to March 23 (about 50 journeys, all of which were purchased with the 16-25 discount) with an expired railcard. I have now received a notice of intent to prosecute, I want to avoid going to court and am happy to pay any fee seen fit, wanted to get advice on what to include within the letter to maximise the chances of this. I have added the photos of the letter at the bottom of the thread, appreciate any advice and input

Hi and welcome - no doubt ppl will be along with advice on this - but basically you need to seek to persuade them in your response to this that this was a genuine mistake, not deliberate evasion, and request that they allow you to settle the matter out of court as opposed to prosecution route.

Obv as you have used the discount a lot without knowing, your task is going to be less easy than if this was just one occurrence. You will also need to be prepared to pay the full Anytime Single Fare for all the journey's concerned so check your own purchase records to work that out. Sadly they will be very unlikely to consider the sum already paid as part payment since they regard a ticket as purchased with a Railcard where the Railcard does not exists or is expired as a totally invalid ticket. They also don't usually calculate it with off peak fares either, even if you travelled off peak - so clearly this will cost you a fair bit, but you will appreciate that not noting your Railcard expiry date has been a costly mistake. Sadly they will note that you noticed it was expired, e-mailed someone about it, forgot, but then 'didn't forget' to buy tickets at a discount (well, this is how they might see it anyway, I do appreciate that it's genuinely possible to forget things) so in your reply probably best not to mention that aspect.

But at this stage your reply to them needs to focus on persuading them it was a genuine error, and seeking to persuade them to let you settle it without court action. So you need to engage with them with a written reply to get to that outcome. Feel free to post a draft of what you seek to say if you think feedback here will be of help.

Thameslink have a good record of settling compared with prosecuting so that is helpful to you, and you will find other cases on here where people who have engaged with Thameslink for genuine errors have found their enforcement staff reasonable to deal with (have a look over some other threads).

For a starter on content have a look at the helfpul advice @Hadders often posts on what to include in your reply.

 

[tetartoid]

Others on here will give much better advice, but I'll start with a couple of questions:

1) Did you tell the officer that you have travelled more than once with no railcard?
2) Did you purchase this journey (and the 50 previous journeys) as a paper ticket from a machine, or was it purchased online/through an app?

The answers to these are important as it will determine whether the train company can trace your journey history, and therefore how much you will wish to incriminate yourself with your response. At the moment, the letter is referring to only one particular journey, rather than the 50 previous journeys.

 

[Jazztrain2000]

Thanks for your response, I understand the costs could be high in regards to all the journeys take.
My issue is that i have in a way already admitted I was fare evading as I knew my railcard was expired (shown by the email, which I told the officer in hope it would bring some leniency). By saying it was a honest mistake would be viewed as lying due you to me knowing it was expired.
If I say i knowingly fare evaded is the only option to then go to court?

 

[Jazztrain2000]

Others on here will give much better advice, but I'll start with a couple of questions:

1) Did you tell the officer that you have travelled more than once with no railcard?
2) Did you purchase this journey (and the 50 previous journeys) as a paper ticket from a machine, or was it purchased online/through an app?

The answers to these are important as it will determine whether the train company can trace your journey history, and therefore how much you will wish to incriminate yourself with your response. At the moment, the letter is referring to only one particular journey, rather than the 50 previous journeys.

All the tickets were purchased via the trainline app and so the officer was able to see all past journeys, I admitted to the officer I had an expired railcard and said it expired around October time (although it was actually September, but i didn't know), therefore all tickets purchased since then were invalid. I did not want to lie as I assumed he could see this on his machine that brought up all the tickets on

 

[Haywain]

I was unable to produce my railcard because it was at home, regardless the railcard had expired in September

Corrected that for you. I am afraid that I don't agree with @WesternLancer that this is ever going to look like "you have used the discount a lot without knowing". With 6 months involved, this looks as though it became quite deliberate and I would expect that GTR will see it that way too. That doesn't mean that GTR won't settle out of court but they will want to recover a significant amount of the discounts you received and to convince them to settle I wouldn't suggest putting too much emphasis on the idea of this being some innocent mistake.

 

[WesternLancer]

If I say i knowingly fare evaded is the only option to then go to court?

No, not impossible, as they still have an incentive to settle, strictly speaking (since the railway gets all the money from the settlement, whereas in court some of what you pay goes to govt/court, not the 'victim' which in this case is the railway)

But you will have to way more focus on apologising and accepting you have been doing things wrong and will never do this again, and you wish to put right what you did wrong. And if they can trace all 50 journeys they are more likely to think you are a serial offender so that may reduce their desire to settle, but it's not impossible.

EDIT - I quite agree with @Haywain : "I wouldn't suggest putting too much emphasis on the idea of this being some innocent mistake".

Ref changing your user name - contact the moderators (is there a 'report' button on your 1st post)

 

[Jazztrain2000]

Corrected that for you. I am afraid that I don't agree with @WesternLancer that this is ever going to look like "you have used the discount a lot without knowing". With 6 months involved, this looks as though it became quite deliberate and I would expect that GTR will see it that way too. That doesn't mean that GTR won't settle out of court but they will want to recover a significant amount of the discounts you received and to convince them to settle I wouldn't suggest putting too much emphasis on the idea of this being some innocent mistake.

Agree with the honesty view, I am happy to pay the fine, just want to ensure it is settled outside of court

No, not impossible, as they still have an incentive to settle, strictly speaking (since the railway gets all the money from the settlement, whereas in court some of what you pay goes to govt/court, not the 'victim' which in this case is the railway)

But you will have to way more focus on apologising and accepting you have been doing things wrong and will never do this again, and you wish to put right what you did wrong. And if they can trace all 50 journeys they are more likely to think you are a serial offender so that may reduce their desire to settle, but it's not impossible.

I am 95% sure the officer at the time knew about the previous journeys being on an expired railcard. Would they have addressed that in the letter if they knew of them?

Agree with the honesty view, I am happy to pay the fine, just want to ensure it is settled outside of court



I am 95% sure the officer at the time knew about the previous journeys being on an expired railcard. Would they have addressed that in the letter if they knew of them?

The officer was also wearing a go-pro camera at the time

 

[Gonzoiku]

Ref changing your user name - contact the moderators (is there a 'report' button on your 1st post)

As you can see from the quotes in your own message, that is not 100% effective, sadly.

GZ

 

[AlterEgo]

Regrettably you incriminated yourself by openly admitting to the evasion when interviewed by the revenue protection officer. It's too late now but openly admitting to the offending and making a confession without legal counsel is deeply unwise and this applies in every and all instances. You must not lie, of course, but you have no obligation to answer any of the inspector's questions other than giving your name and address. Saying "no comment" to everything else would have been less damaging.

This opens the door for GTR to prosecute you under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, an offence which requires intent to prove. The other and less serious offences are Railway Bylaw offences which are strict liability (like speeding). However, GTR seem to have only said they suspect you - at the moment - of merely not having a valid ticket.

GTR tend to be fairly pragmatic and are often open to settling, but you should be aware you are likely to be asked for the full Anytime fare for every instance you evaded the fare. An Anytime Day Return is £24.80 so you may well be looking at £1,000 worth of liability here, plus an administration fee of something in the region of £100-200.

You'll need to write back with a fulsome apology and determination not to evade the fare again.

However, be mindful that your reply should focus ONLY on the SINGLE allegation they have levelled at you. It’s one instance of failing to show a valid ticket. At this stage do not mention any other offences in writing and do not allude to it either. Please post a draft of your letter so we can check it. What you say in it is important.

 

[island]

you have no obligation to answer any of the inspector's questions other than giving your name and address

Since January you are now obliged in England to give your date of birth.

 

[AlterEgo]

Since January you are now obliged in England to give your date of birth.

To an inspector or other authorised person? I can’t find this in the bylaws - where is this?

 

[island]

To an inspector or other authorised person? I can’t find this in the bylaws - where is this?

Regulation 7, the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022.

 

[Ediswan]

Regulation 7, the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022.

True, but that amends Regulation 13 of The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018, which only appears to apply when charging a penalty fare, which does not appear to be the case here.

As amended:

13.—(1) Where a collector proposes to charge a person a penalty fare under regulation 5(1), that
person must, subject to regulation 10(4), provide their name and address , and, in respect of England, their date of birth, when required to do so
by the collector.

 

[island]

I'm responding to AlterEgo's more general point.

 

[WesternLancer]

I am 95% sure the officer at the time knew about the previous journeys being on an expired railcard. Would they have addressed that in the letter if they knew of them?

Not necessarily - or not at this stage. But you have to assume they may know about them, tho they are not asking you about them - so go with the good advice in @AlterEgo 's response in post #10 in terms of your reply at this stage.

But, what may happen is you reply to this, then they may get back to you and say 'we think you have done this on other occasions, is this the case' and then you address that if they ask you. At each stage if you come here for advice it will help ensure that your reply to them is as good as it can be at securing the outcome you want (which is an out of court settlement).

You could of course also ask for the advice / help of a solicitor, but the general advice here is that at least at this initial stage, if you reply to them carefully in terms of wording, you do not need to pay for a solicitor yet.

I would get working on the draft of your reply as you do not have long to respond and it is vital that you engage with them.

 

[spag23]

The irony here is that one view of the situation might be that the OP deprived GTR of just £15; the cost of 6 months of Railcard. But unfortunately it's not the right view, ie don't propose it to GTR!
On this forum, I frequently suggest that any OPs in this situation note their future Railcard's expiry somewhere (paper or electronic) where it will reliably alert them. Perhaps I should add; immediately action it when it (or the TOC's reminder) does alert you.