Lewes Bonfire 04/11/2017

[Universediver]

I have just read that Southern will not be running any services to Lewes and surrounding stations from midday onwards on the 04/11/2017.

This is the annual Bonfire night with many processions in the town and which brings ten of thousands of people. Apparently the Police do not want people coming into the town and so have asked Southern to implement this blanket ban for most of the day.

There will be no rail replacement buses so basically if you want to get in or out of Lewes you cannot use rail.

Does anyone know if it is legal to stop these services for over 12 hours?

 

[Darandio]

I have just read that Southern will not be running any services to Lewes and surrounding stations from midday onwards on the 04/11/2017.

This is the annual Bonfire night with many processions in the town and which brings ten of thousands of people. Apparently the Police do not want people coming into the town and so have asked Southern to implement this blanket ban for most of the day.

There will be no rail replacement buses so basically if you want to get in or out of Lewes you cannot use rail.

Does anyone know if it is legal to stop these services for over 12 hours?

Of course it is legal, what makes you think it would be illegal?

Happened last year too I think, there was a discussion about it.

 

[Universediver]

Of course it is legal, what makes you think it would be illegal?

Happened last year too I think, there was a discussion about it.

I thought Southern had a legal obligation to run a public transport service, stopping trains for a long period is breaking this obligation. It is supposed to be PUBLIC TRANSPORT for the many, if you are rich you will get a chauffeured car into Lewes (or as close as you can) or stay in a hotel in the town.

If you are an ordinary Joe you rely on public transport, so effectively it is a restriction on less well off citizens.

But what do I expect of such a great rail company like Southern!

 

[Darandio]

A lot of angst towards Southern there, yet it is the police that have asked them not to run the service, exactly the same as they did last year.

 

[LAX54]

I thought Southern had a legal obligation to run a public transport service, stopping trains for a long period is breaking this obligation. It is supposed to be PUBLIC TRANSPORT for the many, if you are rich you will get a chauffeured car into Lewes (or as close as you can) or stay in a hotel in the town.

If you are an ordinary Joe you rely on public transport, so effectively it is a restriction on less well off citizens.

But what do I expect of such a great rail company like Southern!

If the Police do not want any extra in Town and they have asked for the service to be suspended then that is a Police issue not Southern, and the Railway have simply complied with the request. (as 2016)

also chauffeured car may not work either:
The A26 will be closed for the event through the Cuilfail Tunnel, between the Southerham roundabout (junction with the A27), and Earwig Corner (junction with the B2192 to Ringmer) between 4.30pm and 1am in both directions.

Other road closures will include the A275 between Lewes and the B2116 at Offham, Brighton Road between the A27 and prison crossroads in Lewes and Kingston Road between Lewes and Wellgreen Lane.

Bus routes diverted, and Parking restricted or banned.

They have said they do not want outsiders there, and it is not suitable for children.

 

[Bishopstone]

I am surprised it was thought necessary to close London Road and Moulsecoomb.

Falmer is less surprising, as it's walkable to Lewes via the A27.

 

[bramling]

Of course it is legal, what makes you think it would be illegal?

Happened last year too I think, there was a discussion about it.

Presumably they will be running non-stop through Lewes? It would be a bit harsh to suspend the service completely.

 

[bramling]

I am surprised it was thought necessary to close London Road and Moulsecoomb.

Falmer is less surprising, as it's walkable to Lewes via the A27.

Still a very long walk though - beyond what all but a few would contemplate.

The only other station just about within walking distance is Cooksbridge.

 

[Universediver]

A lot of angst towards Southern there, yet it is the police that have asked them not to run the service, exactly the same as they did last year.

Just because it was a request from the Police does not mean they have bow to them. This is health & safety gone mad. I have been going to Lewes since I was a child and now effectively being told I cannot go.

Angst against Southern? No cannot believe that, completely incompetent operator.

 

[Bishopstone]

Still a very long walk though - beyond what all but a few would contemplate.

The only other station just about within walking distance is Cooksbridge.

Cooksbridge is closed every Saturday, anyway.

My tip for anyone desperate to beat the ban? Southease. If the weather is reasonable and with some stout shoes, it's a perfectly viable walk up the Ouse valley. However, you'd need to leave Lewes quite early - and carry a torch - if you wanted to pick-up the last train!

 

[al78]

Would it be theoretically possible to cycle to the event, or is access to the town barred if you don't live there? If outsiders are really barred, are the police going to form roadblocks at every public right of way in the area, in case someone decides to drive to within a few miles then use a public footpath?

 

[Robertj21a]

If I recall correctly, the good people of Lewes themselves are worried about the enormous crowds that are attracted to the event(s) nowadays. It's been in danger of getting out of control and they don't need, or appreciate, vast numbers of 'outsiders' invading their small town.
As others have said, the same/similar arrangements were made for trains last year. It seems very sensible in the circumstances, if people are that determined they can cycle or walk.

 

[Bishopstone]

Would it be theoretically possible to cycle to the event, or is access to the town barred if you don't live there? If outsiders are really barred, are the police going to form roadblocks at every public right of way in the area, in case someone decides to drive to within a few miles then use a public footpath?

No restrictions on incoming pedestrians so far as I know. Can't imagine bikes would be a problem, either, so long as you observed road closures by walking it as necessary. Not sure where you'd leave the bike safely, though.

 

[RichardKing]

Regarding last year, I'm pretty sure the alterations were imposed because of the RMT strikes.

 

[Darandio]

Regarding last year, I'm pretty sure the alterations were imposed because of the RMT strikes.

Probably yes, but according to last years thread the police, district council and other authorities have been looking to reduce the numbers attending for years.

 

[6Gman]

Just because it was a request from the Police does not mean they have bow to them.

Indeed.

But usually sensible to follow police advice.

 

[Holmevalley]

Another option is to ban the bonfire and let the trains run for all to use.

 

[bearhugger]

Happened last year too I think, there was a discussion about it.

The thread about this from last year is in the Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables section of the forum http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=137529&highlight=Lewes

 

[Robertj21a]

Another option is to ban the bonfire and let the trains run for all to use.

Why on earth should anyone ban a local tradition just because trains aren't running ?

Crazy !

 

[6Gman]

Why on earth should anyone ban a local tradition just because trains aren't running ?

Crazy !

I assume the suggestion was that if the event has grown to such a size that it disrupts the ordinary lives of other people then perhaps it has grown too big and disruptive.

 

[Antman]

I assume the suggestion was that if the event has grown to such a size that it disrupts the ordinary lives of other people then perhaps it has grown too big and disruptive.

That's exactly what has happened.

I understand that Southern not serving Lewes is not ideal but under the circumstances what else can they do?

 

[Antman]

Why on earth should anyone ban a local tradition just because trains aren't running ?

Crazy !

I think you have answered your own question! Last year there were around 80 people injured, shall we wait until there are fatalities?

 

[IrishDave]

Presumably they will be running non-stop through Lewes? It would be a bit harsh to suspend the service completely.

Last year, when the Lewes bonfire coincided with an RMT strike day, the half-hourly Brighton-Eastbourne service ran non-stop between Brighton and Berwick from about midday onwards. There was no service all day over the line between Haywards Heath and Lewes.

 

[jopsuk]

So, reading the thread, reality is:
Hype about the event has meant it has grown to a stage where people are getting seriously hurt at an alarming rate. The bonfire societies themselves realise this and are keen to reduce the numbers attending, essentially to just townspeople and their guests.

So they're working with the police, who are closing the roads and have asked the TOC to assist by not stopping trains at local stations. The TOC, mindful of crowding issues, have agreed to this.

This is somehow the TOC behaving disgracefully, according to one of those outsiders who the bonfire societies themselves wish to keep away. This is of course Health and Safety Gone Mad and the Nanny State interfering.

 

[ajb690]

As someone local (ish - never lived in Lewes, but been to the fireworks and travelled through it a lot on Bonfire Night) I support this. The event has got so popular and Lewes as a medieval town with narrow streets just can't cope with the crowds. Last time I went I was stuck 6-deep on a bridge over the Ouse and it was not a great experience.

For the OP - there are many bonfire events in Sussex, why not try Battle this year - only (!) 20,000 people, so much more relaxed, actually a better display - and it's on the supposed site of the Battle of Hastings to boot.

 

[Antman]

As someone local (ish - never lived in Lewes, but been to the fireworks and travelled through it a lot on Bonfire Night) I support this. The event has got so popular and Lewes as a medieval town with narrow streets just can't cope with the crowds. Last time I went I was stuck 6-deep on a bridge over the Ouse and it was not a great experience.

For the OP - there are many bonfire events in Sussex, why not try Battle this year - only (!) 20,000 people, so much more relaxed, actually a better display - and it's on the supposed site of the Battle of Hastings to boot.

Exactly, the event really is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Universediver]

So, reading the thread, reality is:
Hype about the event has meant it has grown to a stage where people are getting seriously hurt at an alarming rate. The bonfire societies themselves realise this and are keen to reduce the numbers attending, essentially to just townspeople and their guests.

So they're working with the police, who are closing the roads and have asked the TOC to assist by not stopping trains at local stations. The TOC, mindful of crowding issues, have agreed to this.

This is somehow the TOC behaving disgracefully, according to one of those outsiders who the bonfire societies themselves wish to keep away. This is of course Health and Safety Gone Mad and the Nanny State interfering.

No fatalities....minor injuries (what most large events have)
I am not an outsider. As mentioned I have been going since a child! Sussex born and bred.
Yes it is the nanny state interfering. We should have a free choice. And yes I was asked as a guest of someone who is a leading member of the town. Now I cannot go as I cannot get there!

 

[ajb690]

No fatalities....minor injuries (what most large events have)
I am not an outsider. As mentioned I have been going since a child! Sussex born and bred.
Yes it is the nanny state interfering. We should have a free choice. And yes I was asked as a guest of someone who is a leading member of the town. Now I cannot go as I cannot get there!

And it's very sad that the amount of people attending with no connection to the town have made this so difficult for people like yourself. I'm just not sure what you expect to happen?

 

[Llanigraham]

No fatalities....minor injuries (what most large events have)
I am not an outsider. As mentioned I have been going since a child! Sussex born and bred.
Yes it is the nanny state interfering. We should have a free choice. And yes I was asked as a guest of someone who is a leading member of the town. Now I cannot go as I cannot get there!

But you are an "outsider", as you are not a Lewes resident.

And you aren't capable of walking or riding a bicycle? Or even going the day before and paying for a nights hotel/b&b?

If you really want to go then YOU have to make an effort, not "cry" on an internet forum.

 

[Llanigraham]

And before you respond, yes I do have experience of this sort of event.
My own town used to have a Fancy Dress Night every July. It started off as just the town's people but gradually got bigger and bigger to the extent that in the end we had to close the 4 streets in the centre of the town, employ Security Guards, have St John present, and pay for the Police to attend, all because a large percentage of those that came ended up drunk, incapable and caused trouble.
This in a town of 2,500 normally, that grew by over a 1000 those nights!