Leyland and Volvo Olympians

[TheGrandWazoo]

Almost. Future Northern Metrobus orders retained the Gardner/Voith driveline. These included a batch of 11 to DP spec, powered by 6LXDT engines and were the first and only use of this unit in buses. One of the 11 was later re-engined with a Volvo D10A unit, with the intention of doing the other 10 in the batch, but a combination of the cost of the conversion and the infamous Metrobus rot starting to take hold on the others meant that no more were done.

All but one of Northern's B and C-reg Olympians had the L10/Voith driveline - the odd man out was 3674 (C674LJR), which had a Gardner 5LXCT engine.

It is a 30 year ago but was it along the lines of...

Olympians - The first batches of Northern's Olympians 3572-3611 and 3612-7 were standard Gardner 6LXB with Leyland hydracyclic gearboxes? The later batches (3520-3, 3735-48 and 3649-74) were the Cummins L10/Voith with the exception of the experimental 3674 at Jarrow - quite the forerunner in having a smaller turbocharged unit.

Metrobuses - I thought that the first Metrobuses 3486-3500 were Gardner engined Mk1s. Then the first Mk2s were (3501-5) Gardner powered too but delivered a month later were 3506-10 were Cummins L10. Then the later batches 3618-48 and 3749-3778 were also Cummins (?). Then there were the fantastic 6LXDT (not 6LXCT?) 3779-89 for use on the Expresslink services.

I can remember the coach seated Olympians of Northern (3520-3) joining the United Olympians for the X1/X10 Newcastle to Middlesbrough services. The United examples were Gardner powered and seemed a bit slower than the Northern Olyms, and positively pedestrian against the turbocharged Metrobuses that appeared less than a year later. Those Metrobuses were "hell for leather" machines and was always pleased to see one in the old Haymarket bus station ready for the trip south!

 

[bussnapperwm]

Green Bus, Birmingham, still have 3 Olympians, R364LGH, R365LGH and P929RYO. They occasionally see use on school services that are "available to the general public", the destination displays show "available for public use".

They may say "available for public use" but some of the drivers don't like letting the general public use them...

Surely, that shouldn't be possible ?

No Olympian will meet the DDA regulations necessary for 'stage carriage' operations.

There's the 21 (I think) day rule...

 

[Statto]

I loved the Volvo Olympians with Northern Counties Palatine II, brought by MTL in 2 batches in 1995/96 & 1998, given fleet numbers from 0271. The first 36 of the batch were built to silver service standard, given dual purpose seats, & tinted windows, based at Laird Street Birkenhead, allocated to cross river routes & Chester service, 3 of the batch were fitted with a lower deck rear window, & delivered new to Southport for the 284, but wasn't long before they transferred south to Birkenhead.

The 98 batch was standard spec, standard seats ecc, delivered to Gillmoss for the 4/5/14 branded as Millenium fleet, in my view not as good as the 95/96 spec vehicles, the Gillmoss allocated Volvos transferred to Green Lane, then to Speke & Bootle when Arriva brought MTL & was forced to sell Gillmoss

 

[DunsBus]

It is a 30 year ago but was it along the lines of...

Olympians - The first batches of Northern's Olympians 3572-3611 and 3612-7 were standard Gardner 6LXB with Leyland hydracyclic gearboxes? The later batches (3520-3, 3735-48 and 3649-74) were the Cummins L10/Voith with the exception of the experimental 3674 at Jarrow - quite the forerunner in having a smaller turbocharged unit.

Metrobuses - I thought that the first Metrobuses 3486-3500 were Gardner engined Mk1s. Then the first Mk2s were (3501-5) Gardner powered too but delivered a month later were 3506-10 were Cummins L10. Then the later batches 3618-48 and 3749-3778 were also Cummins (?). Then there were the fantastic 6LXDT (not 6LXCT?) 3779-89 for use on the Expresslink services.

I can remember the coach seated Olympians of Northern (3520-3) joining the United Olympians for the X1/X10 Newcastle to Middlesbrough services. The United examples were Gardner powered and seemed a bit slower than the Northern Olyms, and positively pedestrian against the turbocharged Metrobuses that appeared less than a year later. Those Metrobuses were "hell for leather" machines and was always pleased to see one in the old Haymarket bus station ready for the trip south!

Metrobuses 3618-3648 and 3749-3778 were Gardner 6LXB/3-speed Voith. The 11 Expresslink Metrobuses, 3779-3789 were Gardner 6LXDT/4-speed Voith; it was 3787 which got the Volvo D10A repower, in 1998. It was also the last of the Expresslink batch to come off, in 2000 - I can only assume that Go-North East wanted to recoup some of the cost of the repower first before selling the bus on!

Olympians 3572-3611 were Gardner 6LXB/Hydracyclic semi-auto whilst 3612-3617 were Gardner 6LXB/Hydracyclic fully auto. Olympians 3520-3523/3649-3673/3734-3748 were all Cummins L10/4-speed Voith, with a beefed-up spec on 3520-3523 as these were used on Expresslink services. 3674 was the oddball Gardner 5LXCT/Voith.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Metrobuses 3618-3648 and 3749-3778 were Gardner 6LXB/3-speed Voith. The 11 Expresslink Metrobuses, 3779-3789 were Gardner 6LXDT/4-speed Voith; it was 3787 which got the Volvo D10A repower, in 1998. It was also the last of the Expresslink batch to come off, in 2000 - I can only assume that Go-North East wanted to recoup some of the cost of the repower first before selling the bus on!

Olympians 3572-3611 were Gardner 6LXB/Hydracyclic semi-auto whilst 3612-3617 were Gardner 6LXB/Hydracyclic fully auto. Olympians 3520-3523/3649-3673/3734-3748 were all Cummins L10/4-speed Voith, with a beefed-up spec on 3520-3523 as these were used on Expresslink services. 3674 was the oddball Gardner 5LXCT/Voith.

Ah - so it’s my Metrobuses that I was struggling with more

That said, I was always more a United Auto person

 

[Bristol LH]

A long-wheelbase ECW-bodied Olympian still in every day use:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129716166@N03/47159400852/in/dateposted/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A long-wheelbase ECW-bodied Olympian still in every day use:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129716166@N03/47159400852/in/dateposted/

Assume it’s not high mileage?

 

[DunsBus]

Ah - so it’s my Metrobuses that I was struggling with more

That said, I was always more a United Auto person

Just as an aside, all of the Northern Metrobuses and all bar four of the Olympians had registrations which tallied with the last three digits of the fleetnumbers. The exceptions were Olympians 3572-3611, which were registered JTY372-407/368-371X.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just as an aside, all of the Northern Metrobuses and all bar four of the Olympians had registrations which tallied with the last three digits of the fleetnumbers. The exceptions were Olympians 3572-3611, which were registered JTY372-407/368-371X.

It was also interesting that Northern dual sourced Olympians and Metrobuses between 1981 and 1986.

United Auto bought Olympians with Bristol built 201-232 being semi auto and Farington built 233-268 being fully automatic. I think 214 was subsequently changed to fully automatic subsequently. Yet the vast majority of Leyland Nationals were fully automatic except diverted examples.

 

[Darklord8899]

..... I always thought that Lothian's ECW bodied Olympians were far better looking and more comfortable than the Alexander bodied ones (the very first batch I thought particularly ugly)....

 

[cnjb8]

I see Volvo Olympians on a daily basis working schools. They sound alright, much better then the Tridents and Scanias skills have but look rusty on the outside. The only time I've seen the interior was when skills ran the matchday bus, the front windows were sealed shut and it looked like the middle door was going to fall off!

 

[DunsBus]

..... I always thought that Lothian's ECW bodied Olympians were far better looking and more comfortable than the Alexander bodied ones (the very first batch I thought particularly ugly)....

The first Lothian batch of Olympian/ECWs were the first ECW bodies to have fully-glazed upper deck rear emergency exits, as used on Roe's Olympian bodies. Up until then ECW had used the same style of emergency exit as used by Park Royal and Leyland on the London Titans, with a small glazed area set within a frame.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I see Volvo Olympians on a daily basis working schools. They sound alright, much better then the Tridents and Scanias skills have but look rusty on the outside. The only time I've seen the interior was when skills ran the matchday bus, the front windows were sealed shut and it looked like the middle door was going to fall off!

And being a "Volly" they're probably equally rusty under the floor! Stagecoach up here lost quite a number of them due to severe corrosion and "chassis splitting". Quite common on particularly the early Volvo examples, as Volvo used cheaper grade materials on the chassis in order to complete outstanding Leyland orders faster.

 

[GusB]

The first Lothian batch of Olympian/ECWs were the first ECW bodies to have fully-glazed upper deck rear emergency exits, as used on Roe's Olympian bodies. Up until then ECW had used the same style of emergency exit as used by Park Royal and Leyland on the London Titans, with a small glazed area set within a frame.

Our "Northern" had a batch of ECW Olympians (TSO-X) with the older style rear emergency exit. They also originally had hopper windows on the front of the upper deck, but apparently these were prone to falling out, so were replaced with fixed glass. It spoiled the appearance slightly in my opinion, but obviously it was much safer. I was never too keen on the full-height ECW bodies as they used two different sizes of glazing for the side windows - I thought Alexander managed this better by having shallower glazing on low-height and deeper windows on the full-heights on both decks.

 

[DunsBus]

Our "Northern" had a batch of ECW Olympians (TSO-X) with the older style rear emergency exit. They also originally had hopper windows on the front of the upper deck, but apparently these were prone to falling out, so were replaced with fixed glass. It spoiled the appearance slightly in my opinion, but obviously it was much safer. I was never too keen on the full-height ECW bodies as they used two different sizes of glazing for the side windows - I thought Alexander managed this better by having shallower glazing on low-height and deeper windows on the full-heights on both decks.

The similar batch of ULS-X Olympian/ECWs for Eastern Scottish also had hopper windows on the upper-deck front when they were new. As with Northen's TSO-Xs, these windows were also short-lived and were quickly replaced with fixed ones.

 

[DunsBus]

And being a "Volly" they're probably equally rusty under the floor! Stagecoach up here lost quite a number of them due to severe corrosion and "chassis splitting". Quite common on particularly the early Volvo examples, as Volvo used cheaper grade materials on the chassis in order to complete outstanding Leyland orders faster.

This was the reason why Lothian punted all of their Volvo Olympians early, at 12-13 years old. Lothian had bought a few kits in to address the rusting/splitting issues, but it wasn't going to be cost-effective and so the buses were quickly moved on. One of the Lothian kits was subsequently used to fix up the chassis on preserved Olympian 285 whilst another kit found its way to the SVBM and was used to repair the underside of the preserved First Olympian, 1308.

 

[Jordan Adam]

This was the reason why Lothian punted all of their Volvo Olympians early, at 12-13 years old. Lothian had bought a few kits in to address the rusting/splitting issues, but it wasn't going to be cost-effective and so the buses were quickly moved on. One of the Lothian kits was subsequently used to fix up the chassis on preserved Olympian 285 whilst another kit found its way to the SVBM and was used to repair the underside of the preserved First Olympian, 1308.

Interesting, although no surprise! It did seem rather hit and miss mostly a case of luck as to how badly each batch rusted. However the K/L/M reg examples (No connection with any Airline ) were typically the worst, whereas generally the later production examples were better, however even then there were later ones with corrosion issues.

Just goes to show, cutting corners will always come back to bite you!

 

[DunsBus]

Interesting, although no surprise! It did seem rather hit and miss mostly a case of luck as to how badly each batch rusted. However the K/L/M reg examples (No connection with any Airline ) were typically the worst, whereas generally the later production examples were better, however even then there were later ones with corrosion issues.

Just goes to show, cutting corners will always come back to bite you!

A similar problem happened with MCW Metrobuses. The rear-end rot, which a good number of them suffered from, was the result of MCW putting two opposing metals next to each other, causing electrolysis.
Go-Ahead undersealed the chassis of all of their Metrobuses to try to keep the rust at bay, but it only succeeded in making the problem worse as the underseal locked in any rust which was already there - and which then spread. I remember an attempt by a preservationst to purchase one of the 11 Northern Expresslink Metrobuses fell through after he had the bus put over a pit when he went to buy it, and found that the chassis had more holes than a Swiss cheese. Needless to say, that was that!

 

[Eyersey468]

The Alexander Royale bodied Olympians that East Yorkshire bought in 1995 were really bad at rusting underneath, maybe not helped by being near the coast a lot, although I've a feeling one of the P_SAT batch ended up being scrapped due to chassis corrosion.

 

[DunsBus]

It was also interesting that Northern dual sourced Olympians and Metrobuses between 1981 and 1986.

United Auto bought Olympians with Bristol built 201-232 being semi auto and Farington built 233-268 being fully automatic. I think 214 was subsequently changed to fully automatic subsequently. Yet the vast majority of Leyland Nationals were fully automatic except diverted examples.

Northern had also dual-sourced their previous batches of deckers, taking both Bristol VRs (with the aforementioned Leyland 501 engines) and Leyland Atlanteans. The last new Northern VRs arrived in 1979 and their last new Atlanteans the following year, just ahead of the first batch of Metrobuses. The Atlanteans were topped up with 60 acquired from Tyne & Wear PTE between 1981 and 1983; ten DP-spec Alexander-bodied ones that had never turned a wheel for the PTE, having been stored on delivery, and fifty with MCW bodies, the last free-standing chassis to have MCW bodywork. The latter buses gave a literal definition to the term "rust free" as the body rust, which was already starting to take a grip on them at just three years old, came free.

The AEF-Y United Auto ECW-bodied Olympians had a detail change part way through the batch - from the early style of upper deck emergency exit (up to 225) to the fully- glazed version (226 onwards).

 

[Jordan Adam]

A similar problem happened with MCW Metrobuses. The rear-end rot, which a good number of them suffered from, was the result of MCW putting two opposing metals next to each other, causing electrolysis.
Go-Ahead undersealed the chassis of all of their Metrobuses to try to keep the rust at bay, but it only succeeded in making the problem worse as the underseal locked in any rust which was already there - and which then spread. I remember an attempt by a preservationst to purchase one of the 11 Northern Expresslink Metrobuses fell through after he had the bus put over a pit when he went to buy it, and found that the chassis had more holes than a Swiss cheese. Needless to say, that was that!

And just as we were talking about chassis corrosion Stagecoach Cumbrias 16661 & 16670 are now up for disposal for this exact issue! Surprised they hadn't been treated.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Northern had also dual-sourced their previous batches of deckers, taking both Bristol VRs (with the aforementioned Leyland 501 engines) and Leyland Atlanteans. The last new Northern VRs arrived in 1979 and their last new Atlanteans the following year, just ahead of the first batch of Metrobuses. The Atlanteans were topped up with 60 acquired from Tyne & Wear PTE between 1981 and 1983; ten DP-spec Alexander-bodied ones that had never turned a wheel for the PTE, having been stored on delivery, and fifty with MCW bodies, the last free-standing chassis to have MCW bodywork. The latter buses gave a literal definition to the term "rust free" as the body rust, which was already starting to take a grip on them at just three years old, came free.

The AEF-Y United Auto ECW-bodied Olympians had a detail change part way through the batch - from the early style of upper deck emergency exit (up to 225) to the fully- glazed version (226 onwards).

Whilst a number of NBC firms dual sourced with Atlanteans and VRs, not many dual sourced with Olympians (aside from trial deckers).

I remember the ex TWPTE Atlanteans well.

Another little detail difference on the United Auto ones was the relocation of the registration plate. Also, 239 had no waistrail beading and a unique experimental interior.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

..... I always thought that Lothian's ECW bodied Olympians were far better looking and more comfortable than the Alexander bodied ones (the very first batch I thought particularly ugly)....

If you mean the 1980's X-reg Alexander-bodied Olympians then I see what you mean.

In my view, the Alexander AL and R-type bodies look rather splendid!

I hope Lothian do a running day in (I presume) spring next year - sounds like I've got to ride on a few past Lothian buses. If not, I guess September if I feel like it.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

If you mean the 1980's X-reg Alexander-bodied Olympians then I see what you mean.

In my view, the Alexander AL and R-type bodies look rather splendid!

I hope Lothian do a running day in (I presume) spring next year - sounds like I've got to ride on a few past Lothian buses. If not, I guess September if I feel like it.

The R-type bodies that had a bit more curver on the front top-deck windscreen (like on Lothians Cummins L10 Olympians).

 

[mbonwick]

And just as we were talking about chassis corrosion Stagecoach Cumbrias 16661 & 16670 are now up for disposal for this exact issue! Surprised they hadn't been treated.

They were treated, however that must've been at least 7 years ago now...
It's fair to say that Volvo Olympians were/are more susceptible to chassis rot than their Leyland predecessors, but when the youngest examples are 20 years old (against a design life of 15 years), is it reasonable to call it a major shortcoming?

 

[Jordan Adam]

They were treated, however that must've been at least 7 years ago now...
It's fair to say that Volvo Olympians were/are more susceptible to chassis rot than their Leyland predecessors, but when the youngest examples are 20 years old (against a design life of 15 years), is it reasonable to call it a major shortcoming?

I agree, but it's not as if 'vollys' were only rotting later in life. Regardless 16661/70 have both offered extensive service and their fate has finally came.

 

[mbonwick]

It's fair to say that some Volvo examples rotted disgracefully early, but most only started to show signs of severe tin worm around the 15 year mark.
I can't recall exactly when 16661/70 were done, but it would have been around 2010, at which point they were 12 years old, and done purely on a preventative basis. (Though admittedly at that point, sister 16655 had been lost to chassis rot/accident damage, so potential consequences were clear).

I just can't help feeling that Vollys are unfairly judged, at least in part due to them being the last high capacity step-entrance deckers. How many Tridents have been scrapped in the same period due to chassis damage with barely a word spoken?

 

[Darklord8899]

The R-type bodies that had a bit more curver on the front top-deck windscreen (like on Lothians Cummins L10 Olympians).

Yes, the Alexander body did get better as time went on.....I think my dislike was probably due more to my age at the time and the fact I was used to the very rounded/curved edges of the Atlanteans, which was Lothian's bus of choice at the time. The ECW bodywork whilst having straighter lines, still had the softer curved edges/corners. The X-Reg were a very stark contrast with it's sharp edges and corners, I seem to recall thinking at the time, that someone had "just drawn lines with a ruler, rather than taking the time to design something nice" it should be noted, that in 1980 I would have been 7/8 years old!

 

[Driver362]

As previously commented by me my fav bus to drive well joint first with scania L & N 113's. They were especially nice if you had a key to unlock overdrive on the ZF ones

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

An update on my Olympian sightings if I've not mentioned it: during the last week, I've twice seen former Hong Kong TIL 6571 (3-axle Leyland Olympian with tropical sliding windows). I guess it's a Walters one. It's a dark red / cherry colour.

I googled (as in typed in the search box) TIL 6572 and discovered it was new in 1984 - yet at 35 years old it's still sounding in immaculate condition.

Another Olympian which I googled is N657 YNO. It's former RA279 (Volvo Olympian with a Cummins L10 and I believe a Voith gearbox). This also sounds in immaculate condition.

This and former RA279 were serving John Mason School in Abingdon.

I think it must have been June 28th or July 5th 2-3 months back when I spotted I believe an ex-Nottingham Trident (reg started with W653, couldn't work out the rest). I believe this was a Walters vehicle which was coming up Steventon Hill as I was on an X2 from Didcot Parkway Station back to the Oxford Road in Abingdon.

Several Tridents around this age / era I spot pretty much always have their fans working but the Olympians mentioned + other Cummins and Volvo-powered ones don't.

In fact the last Olympians I went on with its radiator fan on was a few ex-Hong Kong air-conditioned ones, when on a Leyland Olympian Yahoo group outing, when they were climbing hills.