Likelihood of refusal of a 14.2 split ticket on VTWC

[dviner]

Not sure if this is best posted here, or in Fares & Policy, but here goes.

I've got a current yearly season between Apsley and Milton Keynes Central, marked "Any Permitted". I will be moving temporarily to Letchworth, but will still need to travel to MKC on a regular basis, so don't want to get the season ticket refunded. The intention is to buy a Letchworth - Apsley return when I need to occasionally go to Milton Keynes. If this return ticket is also "Any Permitted", this should be valid on VTWC EUS-MKC & MKC-EUS non-stop services under NRCoC 14.2.

So here's the question (which may be valid on Disputes & Prosecutions) - is it common for VTWC staff to not recognise the validity of similar split tickets?

 

[_toommm_]

I can't foresee it any problems really - I've done it recently with a North West Rover and a normal A to B single.

I would suggest downloading the NRCoT (no longer the NRCoC as you elude to in your post) and know where to find the rule, incase you do have any problems. Anyone arguing still once they've seen that will be a moron to be honest.

 

[SickyNicky]

You will likely have trouble at the manual barrier at Euston, though, even with documentary evidence.

 

[dviner]

I can't foresee it any problems really - I've done it recently with a North West Rover and a normal A to B single.

I would suggest downloading the NRCoT (no longer the NRCoC as you elude to in your post) and know where to find the rule, incase you do have any problems. Anyone arguing still once they've seen that will be a moron to be honest.

Thanks, I'll take note.

 

[dviner]

You will likely have trouble at the manual barrier at Euston, though, even with documentary evidence.

That's the sort of thing I was thinking of. Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Euston barrier have a long standing record of refusing all sorts of perfectly valid tickets. I don't hold out much hope for you of having a 14.2 split accepted.

 

[_toommm_]

If worst comes to worst and you're delayed by the manual barriers, ask to speak to the conductor - generally they'll know more. If not, make sure to write in, take the staff members names who refused you access and claim delay compensation from them.

Another alternative may be to tweet them and ask for evidence that that split is valid. Again, you may face objections on Twitter, but if it does come to fruition, I'd struggle to see how any staff member could argue with one's own Twitter and one's own staff...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If worst comes to worst and you're delayed by the manual barriers, ask to speak to the conductor - generally they'll know more. If not, make sure to write in, take the staff members names who refused you access and claim delay compensation from them.

Another alternative may be to tweet them and ask for evidence that that split is valid. Again, you may face objections on Twitter, but if it does come to fruition, I'd struggle to see how any staff member could argue with one's own Twitter and one's own staff...

Have you ever encountered the VTWC barrier staff at Euston?

If I were the OP I would plan to travel on an LNR service where such incorrect objections will not be encountered.

 

[_toommm_]

Have you ever encountered the VTWC barrier staff at Euston?

If I were the OP I would plan to travel on an LNR service where such incorrect objections will not be encountered.

Once - I would describe the exchange as Blackpool North-esque, where 15 minutes before departure, Saturday evening, the big gates were shut in my face and was told I wasn't allowed to board yet, but 20 minutes prior, I was allowed to walk down the narrow platform to take a photo of the Cally 92

 

[Kite159]

If worst comes to worst and you're delayed by the manual barriers, ask to speak to the conductor - generally they'll know more. If not, make sure to write in, take the staff members names who refused you access and claim delay compensation from them.

Another alternative may be to tweet them and ask for evidence that that split is valid. Again, you may face objections on Twitter, but if it does come to fruition, I'd struggle to see how any staff member could argue with one's own Twitter and one's own staff...

Good luck at getting past the manual barriers to "speak with the train manager", the staff will simply turn you away.

 

[_toommm_]

Good luck at getting past the manual barriers to "speak with the train manager", the staff will simply turn you away.

In my one experience, they did take a long hard look at my (what was then a) digital railcard, and question why there wasn't any QR/Aztec code on. Really did puzzle them, and they didn't sound too sure when they said 'Hmm ok...'

 

[dviner]

This is the feedback I was looking for, and the issues I thought might be expected.

So, it might be a case of "how bloody-minded am I feeling this morning?" When it comes to the choice of VTWC & LNR...

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Whilst I can understand why you might want to find out the risk of being incorrectly denied your contractual rights, personally, unless there is a significant loophole that I don't want to have discovered, I won't make any effort to change my travel arrangements to suit the whims of the TOCs.

If the barriers at Euston have a problem with that combination (and there's every possibility they may, seeing as they are hot contenders for the "worst-trained London Terminal gateline" award) I would simply pay whatever excess they demand in order to travel. If they suggest a new ticket is necessary, I would buy that new ticket. Equally, if they refuse travel entirely, I'll travel on whatever alternative service they recommend (or the next possible one if they don't suggest one).

Then afterwards I'll be sure to write in a letter to VT claiming either delay compensation if they've delayed me, or a letter requiring them to repay the tortiously claimed excess/new ticket within 14 days. If they don't pay either the compensation or excess/new ticket then it's LBA time, then County Court time.

Not much more to it in my view: either you get to travel as planned, or you are reimbursed for your costs, or you are compensated for your wasted time!

Now, my policy when it comes to getting off the railway is rather different, but I don't think that's entirely relevant for this question!

 

[6Gman]

I've pondered doing Crewe - Euston using a West Midlands Day Ranger + a Day Return from MKC.

Is that likely to cause me a problem?

(I would intend to use the non-stop Manchester train)

 

[Merseysider]

Euston barrier have a long standing record of refusing all sorts of perfectly valid tickets. I don't hold out much hope for you of having a 14.2 split accepted.

There will undoubtedly be issues at some point. Some staff at Euston’s barrier are, politely put, cretins.

ForTheLoveOf makes some excellent points.

 

[_toommm_]

Whilst I can understand why you might want to find out the risk of being incorrectly denied your contractual rights, personally, unless there is a significant loophole that I don't want to have discovered, I won't make any effort to change my travel arrangements to suit the whims of the TOCs.

If the barriers at Euston have a problem with that combination (and there's every possibility they may, seeing as they are hot contenders for the "worst-trained London Terminal gateline" award) I would simply pay whatever excess they demand in order to travel. If they suggest a new ticket is necessary, I would buy that new ticket. Equally, if they refuse travel entirely, I'll travel on whatever alternative service they recommend (or the next possible one if they don't suggest one).

Then afterwards I'll be sure to write in a letter to VT claiming either delay compensation if they've delayed me, or a letter requiring them to repay the tortiously claimed excess/new ticket within 14 days. If they don't pay either the compensation or excess/new ticket then it's LBA time, then County Court time.

Not much more to it in my view: either you get to travel as planned, or you are reimbursed for your costs, or you are compensated for your wasted time!

Now, my policy when it comes to getting off the railway is rather different, but I don't think that's entirely relevant for this question!

Well what's to say virgin will even give the OP their money back? I claimed for a delay with a split ticket, provided the headcode for the service that delayed me and the new service I had to travel on, yet still they reject and fob me off to TPE.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've pondered doing Crewe - Euston using a West Midlands Day Ranger + a Day Return from MKC.

Is that likely to cause me a problem?

(I would intend to use the non-stop Manchester train)

Who knows what will actually cause a problem! It is purely down to the training (or lack thereof) of the staff on the day, and perhaps their attitude towards whatever "authoritative" information provided by their colleagues or managers, if you question what they say.

Now, in your particular example, a Day Return from Milton Keynes does not actually intersect with the validity of a West Midlands Day Ranger. So that would not be a valid combination on any train between London and Crewe, and the barrier line would be correct to reject it!

If, however, you held a ticket to Rugby, then that would be a valid combination.

If anything is likely to cause problems, the fact that it is a ranger, and in particular its somewhat disingenious title, might - as barrier line staff might say that Crewe is "not in the West Midlands" and so the ranger is not valid to Crewe. Geopolitically speaking, they would be correct (as Crewe is in the "North West" of England), but fortunately the WMDR is not defined by its geopolitical title, and is therefore nevertheless valid to Crewe.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Well what's to say virgin will even give the OP their money back? I claimed for a delay with a split ticket, provided the headcode for the service that delayed me and the new service I had to travel on, yet still they reject and fob me off to TPE.

A Court, at the end of the day! Ultimately I think people are far too afraid to make use of the County Courts. Yes, there is certainly hassle involved in making use of them, but they are there for a purpose, and a lot of people seem to sort of give up when a claim they make to a company is rejected, as if that rejection outright means they have no more claim.

If any company fobs me off and there is anything but the most trivial amounts involved, I will follow it up with the same "tenacity" as some TOCs follow up unpaid fares of even a few pounds. If I were to value my spare time at the same rate I get paid for working, pursuing most of these things would certainly not be worth it. But doing this is something I enjoy doing, so if it means I recover myself some (rightfully owed) compensation, then all the better for it!

 

[Deafdoggie]

Yes court is an option, Virgin refused to refund me as retailer of a ticket. I explained RDG and Transport Focus both said they were responsible for refund. They still said no. I went back, and asked if that was their final answer then they should take this as notice I intend to take further action. I had the money back via paypal within the hour! Obviously, it does only work when you are in the right though!

With regards to Euston Barrier staff, I had a paper complimentary ticket. A handwritten job, official, but no magnetic stripe of course. Wasn't even orange. I had it in my hand to be manually checked, but was barked at "Put all tickets in the barriers" so i did. It jammed the barriers, caused a backlog of people behind me, and a manager had to be called to unjam the machine, and issue a new ticket. Meanwhile, the barriers had to opened to allow everyone through! The manager said "Don't put in a barrier again" nicely. I explained, I hadn't intended to that time, but was told to. I never saw the staff member again.

 

[Wolfie]

Well what's to say virgin will even give the OP their money back? I claimed for a delay with a split ticket, provided the headcode for the service that delayed me and the new service I had to travel on, yet still they reject and fob me off to TPE.

The County Court! Any attempt at such a stunt would lead to immediate legal action and media publicity of it...

 

[Wolfie]

A Court, at the end of the day! Ultimately I think people are far too afraid to make use of the County Courts. Yes, there is certainly hassle involved in making use of them, but they are there for a purpose, and a lot of people seem to sort of give up when a claim they make to a company is rejected, as if that rejection outright means they have no more claim.

If any company fobs me off and there is anything but the most trivial amounts involved, I will follow it up with the same "tenacity" as some TOCs follow up unpaid fares of even a few pounds. If I were to value my spare time at the same rate I get paid for working, pursuing most of these things would certainly not be worth it. But doing this is something I enjoy doing, so if it means I recover myself some (rightfully owed) compensation, then all the better for it!

I had missed this - spot on!