Limit to 1st Class tickets

[Lddex]

This may seem like a stupid question, but for the last couple of weeks traveling on TPE I have often looked at the tiny section that is First Class. Not many seats.

Do people know how many 1st class tickets they sell. For example if the 10 or so seats were sold online via the TPE website in advanced would Manchester Piccadilly know this - as lets say Mr and Mrs Smith walked up to buy a on the day a 1st class to York - would they be sold it or would the system refuse (I understand that the Smiths would be buying a Anytime or off peak so not tied in to one service) but if they then boarded the train that already had a full 1st class what would happen. Would the ticket machine flag up that there were no 1st class tickets left for XXXX service or would the agent and system just blindly sell and not inform the customer that there was no room in 1st class on XXXX.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do people know how many 1st class tickets they sell.

As many as people buy, like any walk-up ticket.

For example if the 10 or so seats were sold online via the TPE website in advanced would Manchester Piccadilly know this

No. (Well, maybe; if someone tried to get a reservation they would know none were available)

Would the ticket machine flag up that there were no 1st class tickets left for XXXX service or would the agent and system just blindly sell and not inform the customer that there was no room in 1st class on XXXX.

It would indeed sell them. Like a Standard ticket, a First Class ticket does not guarantee a seat unless you also take a seat reservation.

 

[DeeGee]

It would indeed sell them. Like a Standard ticket, a First Class ticket does not guarantee a seat unless you also take a seat reservation.

In the unlikely event that First was full and space available in Standard, would taking a seat in standard and flagging your presence up to the Train Manager mean that your complimentary biscuit and cup of scalding ditchwater would still be made available to you when the trolley is on between Sheffield and Meadowhall on the fifth Tuesday in February?

 

[Starmill]

I think probably yes. You might even get a voucher for the difference if you had to sit in Standard, or extra biscuits.

This is very rare though, I have never seen it happen. The solution is TPE make their First Class very expensive because the supply of it is very low. Look at their priced FORs for relatively short journeys like Leeds <> Manchester. And Advance 1ST isn't much better over short journeys.

 

[Quakkerillo]

No. (Well, maybe; if someone tried to get a reservation they would know none were available)

Although if services worked by a double train, this sometimes doesn't work. A TPE train I had (Hull - Manchester) was doubled up, with a train consisting of ABAB coaches. It was impossible to make any reservations for this train at Manchester Oxford Road/Piccadilly, with employees saying it was fully booked. I boarded anyway, and no reservations whatsoever were on the train (about 80% empty too).

So finding 'no seat reservations available' doesn't mean that it's fully booked.

 

[Starmill]

It mean it is fully booked in the sense that all of the seats that can be reserved have been.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It mean it is fully booked in the sense that all of the seats that can be reserved have been.

Yes, that's what I meant. Often trains have very large number of non-reservable seats held back - for example certain peak trains out of Euston.

 

[trainophile]

In the unlikely event that First was full and space available in Standard, would taking a seat in standard and flagging your presence up to the Train Manager mean that your complimentary biscuit and cup of scalding ditchwater would still be made available to you when the trolley is on between Sheffield and Meadowhall on the fifth Tuesday in February?

Thank you, best laugh I've had all day! Almost true too, although the tea isn't too bad (unless the teabag splits).

 

[snail]

In the unlikely event that First was full and space available in Standard, would taking a seat in standard and flagging your presence up to the Train Manager mean that your complimentary biscuit and cup of scalding ditchwater would still be made available to you when the trolley is on between Sheffield and Meadowhall on the fifth Tuesday in February?

You would be lucky to get them to clear out the Standard ticket holders in my experience, especially when the train is busy and they won't walk through. The Manchester-Scotland trains have very few unreserved seats at peak times, I suspect most of the sales are Advance tickets though the extra for 1st isn't that bad on season tickets. A 1st weekly season from Preston to Manchester works out at £3.43 per journey more than Standard.

 

[Starmill]

Most hours there is only 1tph which conveys First Class accommodation between Preston and Manchester though. You'd be mad to buy that season.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most hours there is only 1tph which conveys First Class accommodation between Preston and Manchester though. You'd be mad to buy that season.

Most commuters are creatures of habit and use the same trains every day. If those trains happen to be TPE 185s or 350s with their rather nice First Class, it might well be a viable choice.

If LM had had the sense to go for 2+1 First Class in the 350s, I think I would seriously consider it. As it is I won't pay more for what is a less comfortable seat!

 

[yorkie]

Do people know how many 1st class tickets they sell.

Who is "they"?

Do you mean tickets, or reservations?

If you mean the latter, in theory each seat can only be reserved once and once they're gone, they're gone. (However on rare occasions things go wrong; see Reserved Seats double booking)

For example if the 10 or so seats were sold online via the TPE website in advanced would Manchester Piccadilly know this - as lets say Mr and Mrs Smith walked up to buy a on the day a 1st class to York - would they be sold it or would the system refuse (I understand that the Smiths would be buying a Anytime or off peak so not tied in to one service)

If all seats were reserved, then anyone requesting a reservation would be told there were no seats available. People can, however, travel without a seat reservation but a seat is not guaranteed.

but if they then boarded the train that already had a full 1st class what would happen.

I don't know what would happen but they would have a choice of standing in 1st class or going to standard to see if a seat was available there.

Would the ticket machine flag up that there were no 1st class tickets left for XXXX service

Tickets? you mean seats? If they requested reservations then yes it would.

or would the agent and system just blindly sell and not inform the customer that there was no room in 1st class on XXXX.

If a passenger asked for a ticket to travel on a specific train, I would expect the booking agent to look for reservations. TPE don't issue reservations on the day of travel so the agent would probably say this if the passenger turned up on the day.

If the passenger simply asked for a walk-up ticket valid for travel on any train, and didn't mention anything about a reservation for a specific train, then the ticket would simply be sold as requested of course.
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So finding 'no seat reservations available' doesn't mean that it's fully booked.

True; it just means what it says. Some TOCs leave particular seats, or even whole coaches or an entire train, unreserved.

 

[Crossover]

It would indeed sell them. Like a Standard ticket, a First Class ticket does not guarantee a seat unless you also take a seat reservation.

Technically, a reservation doesn't guarantee a seat either.