Line naming conventions

[DelW]

The original road route northwards from the West End to the Great North Road went via Kentish Town and Highgate West Hill. That involved a steep climb, so when Archway Road was built, bypassing Highgate village with an easier gradient, Junction Road was built to connect to it. The railway and its eponymous junction came later.

The earliest map I can see on the NLS site shows Junction Road, after the Tottenham and Hampstead line was built but before the connection to the Midland, so the junction does not yet exist.

Map screenshot here:

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I love the names of some of the lines in South London, which are named after their (eventual) destinations; Kensington, Ludgate, Portsmouth and Holborn.

 

[Taunton]

Dr Day's in Bristol (Day being a common Bristol surname) had until the 1970s a signalbox with the complete name spelled out on its large brass nameplate on the front, in standard GWR style 'Doctor Day's Bridge Junction Signal Box', which took up most of the front wall.

I believe for the Electric Lines out of Liverpool Street all four main lines were wired from the start in the initial 1500v DC scheme, but the local electric trains themselves mainly ran on the Electric Lines. However they did from the start do much running of peak extras, which then returned nonstop on the fast lines for a second load. The track layout had been considerably changed with electrification, so it made the point of the new arrangement.

 

[Frontera2]

Found this map a few years ago which is really useful for identifying all of the named lines in the London area: https://cartometro.com/cartes/lines-london/

 

[Springs Branch]

The North Eastern Railway liked to call Slow lines "Independent" and rarely used the term "Goods Line".

It's a long way from NER territory, but I always wondered how the Independent Goods Lines avoiding Crewe station originally got their names? I don't recall seeing the use of 'independent' used in this context anywhere else in the north-west, or elsewhere on the ex-LNWR.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Can anyone explain why the Calder Valley route changes at Smithy Bridge from Rochdale to Lancashire & Yorkshire? Was there ever a junction there?

 

[D6130]

Can anyone explain why the Calder Valley route changes at Smithy Bridge from Rochdale to Lancashire & Yorkshire? Was there ever a junction there?

I suspect that 'Rochdale Lines' is a fairly new designation originating with the Castleton-Smithy Bridge resignalling. Smithy Bridge-Hebden Bridge is - for now - still controlled from Preston power box, which still uses the designation 'Lancashire & Yorkshire'. The engineers' line reference is still 'MVN' (Manchester Victoria-Normanton) throughout.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I suspect that 'Rochdale Lines' is a fairly new designation originating with the Castleton-Smithy Bridge resignalling. Smithy Bridge-Hebden Bridge is - for now - still controlled from Preston power box, which still uses the designation 'Lancashire & Yorkshire'. The engineers' line reference is still 'MVN' (Manchester Victoria-Normanton) throughout.

Thank you.

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m trying to recall a post from within the last couple of years where it was explained that following a signalling transfer to a ROC somewhere, a number of familiar route names were being changed to far more specific local names, to be geographically more accurate. I suppose “up main and down main“ lose something of their meaning if a ROC is looking at quite a few separate areas all with the same basic line names.

So are we likely to see more place names taking over from “mains”?

 

[Railsigns]

So are we likely to see more place names taking over from “mains”?

Yes, and these line renamings have been taking place for decades as modern signal boxes were able to control areas far beyond the lines that passed immediately outside the box.

 

[Pinza-C55]

It's a long way from NER territory, but I always wondered how the Independent Goods Lines avoiding Crewe station originally got their names? I don't recall seeing the use of 'independent' used in this context anywhere else in the north-west, or elsewhere on the ex-LNWR.

Not knowledgeable about Crewe but were they completely independent of the station like a bypass line ?

 

[Ken H]

Not knowledgeable about Crewe but were they completely independent of the station like a bypass line ?

They actually run under North Junction. then to the west of the station. then to the west of the yards.
It opened in 1901.

 

[snowball]

Not knowledgeable about Crewe but were they completely independent of the station like a bypass line ?

Yes. Coming from the south they turn off the main line, bypass the station to the west and then pass under the ground-level junctions at the north end of the station.

 

[Elecman]

They actually run under North Junction. then to the west of the station. then to the west of the yards.
It opened in 1901.

The Up Independent line runs on the East side of Basford Hall not the West

 

[Ken H]

The Up Independent line runs on the East side of Basford Hall not the West

Oh. So the yards are between the up and down independents? Thanks.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Yes. Coming from the south they turn off the main line, bypass the station to the west and then pass under the ground-level junctions at the north end of the station.

Well there you go. Other companies might have named them Avoiding Lines but the LNWR must have preferred Independent.

 

[childwallblues]

Yes. Coming from the south they turn off the main line, bypass the station to the west and then pass under the ground-level junctions at the north end of the station.

Were they not also named as Up and Down Liverpool and Manchester?

 

[Elecman]

Oh. So the yards are between the up and down independents? Thanks.

Yes

 

[zwk500]

Were they not also named as Up and Down Liverpool and Manchester?

From Basford Hall you have Up and Down Slow and Fast independents, which merge then split at EDIT: Salop Goods Jn to the Chester, Manchester, and Liverpool Independents.

 

[Railsigns]

From Basford Hall you have Up and Down Slow and Fast independents, which merge then split at Gresty Lane jn (IIRC) to the Chester, Manchester, and Liverpool Independents.

Salop Goods Jcn.

 

[zwk500]

Salop Goods Jcn.

Much appreciated! Is the Chester Indepedent one way or is my memory faulty there as well?

 

[Class15]

On the other hand, Junction Road Junction is one of my favourite railway location names.

I think the first Junction in the name is because of the Road Junction, and not that the Road was named after the railway junction

 

[Railsigns]

Much appreciated! Is the Chester Indepedent one way or is my memory faulty there as well?

At present, only the Up Chester Independent is in use. It will become a bi-directional single line when the Independent Lines are resignalled.

 

[snowball]

Were they not also named as Up and Down Liverpool and Manchester?

My 2013 Quail/Trackmaps map shows that on the southern part of the route there's Down Fast Independent, Down Slow Independent and Up Independent. Further north they rearrange themselves into six Independent lines: Down and Up Liverpool Independent, Down and Up Manchester Independent, and Down and Up Chester Independent.

Edit: I see others have answered this before me.

 

[Springs Branch]

Well there you go. Other companies might have named them Avoiding Lines but the LNWR must have preferred Independent.

On the OP's question about line naming conventions, it seems the LNWR had a good dabble with using the term 'Independent' for its goods lines around Crewe, but not for other similar candidates around its system which potentially could have been named Independent Lines too.

For example, the 'Low Level Goods Lines' which dived under the WCML at Willesden (re-named 'Willesden Relief lines' according to my Trackmaps book, as they're now used by SN services between Clapham Jn and Watford Jn.)

And the 'Through Goods Lines' between Upperby Jn and Caldew Jn which bypassed Carlisle station. Although given the multiple companies originally serving Carlisle, the through goods lines were not under sole control of the LNWR, seemingly managed by a 'Goods Traffic Committee' of LNWR, MR and Caledonian - all probably with their own opinions about how to name railway lines.

 

[SWTurbo]

I’m trying to recall a post from within the last couple of years where it was explained that following a signalling transfer to a ROC somewhere, a number of familiar route names were being changed to far more specific local names, to be geographically more accurate. I suppose “up main and down main“ lose something of their meaning if a ROC is looking at quite a few separate areas all with the same basic line names.

So are we likely to see more place names taking over from “mains”?

To expand on an earlier reply to this, it can become exceedingly confusing between boxes as this develops.
For example, travelling from Ipswich towards Ely, you go from the Down Main, to the Up Bury at Haughley Jn, this then (in the eyes of the Bury St Eds Yard signaller (and Chippenham Jn signaller up to the actual junction) becomes the Up Main, until Chippenham Jn, whereby it's the Down Bury. (in the opposite direction the Down Bury becomes the down main then the down bury again to Haughley.

Salisbury is another location where this is similarly confusing, where (from Soton to Westbury) you travel on the Down Test Valley (as known to Eastleigh), then the Down Dean (but the same line, as known to Salisbury).
The Down main is the (oddly enough) Down Main through salisbury, which becomes the Up Warminster at Wilton Jn, (although on the panel, the colour scheme is the wrong way round!) These would of course (in the old boxes) have simply been "mains" as well!