Liverpool Lime St. to/from Manchester Oxford Road service

[Grumpy Git]

This service appears to be using old Sprinter stock exclusively at the moment, (156's or a mixture of 156's & 150's)

I haven't been using this route of late, but will be next week, where have all the 195's gone?

Mrs Grumpy won't be impressed as even she noticed how much better the 195's were last time we travelled together.

 

[childwallblues]

195s do appear especially at weekends but they seem to be used elsewhere like doubling up on Airport-Barrows.

 

[Parjon]

This is very poor. Appearing for occasional weekends isn't good enough.

Our city region contributes massively to Northern's fare revenues. Where have our new trains gone and why.

 

[sjm77]

Usually a 195 appears on one of the Oxford Road - Warrington Central peak only diagrams

 

[IanXC]

The Liverpool - Airport via Warrington Semi Fast of course has been withdrawn, this was booked 195s but as mentioned above they're doing other work such as the 6 car Cumbrian workings.

The stoppers I think have always been or at least mainly been 150/156?

 

[8A Rail]

Looking at todays timetable, No 195113 (odd number headcode) and 195131 (even number headcodes) are working Liverpool LS to Warrington Central (& rtn) trains today. The Liverpool LS to Airport via Warrington Central are in the hands of 150 / 156 combinations.

 

[childwallblues]

What has to be remembered is that the LIV-MCO timetable was changed from two stoppers per hour to one. The second train was split into two with LIV-WAC and MCO-WAC stoppers. I never understood that move. The Northern LIV-MIA express was replace with a TPE LIV-CLE which in event gives LIV two fast trains an hour to SHF but none to the Airport via WAC. In fact Liverpools only service to Manchester Airport now is now the hourly stopping service all stations via Chat Moss operated by three car 323 or 331.
Today on the CLC LIV-WAC service are 195131 and 195113 and on LIV-MCO are 156461+150122 and 156429+156401. On Chat Moss Airports are 323226 and 331002/28.

 

[Grumpy Git]

On the 2O93 service now and its a well patronised 2-car 150, (150135).

Its not too bad condition wise inside or out, but its bl**dy noisy with all the hoppers open!

Give me a 195 any day of the week.

 

[317 forever]

As Liverpool is getting 777s, and 197s from Runcorn & Chester, and occasional TPE 802s when they turn up, someone must have decided that Liverpool has enough modern trains for now.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I haven't been using this route of late, but will be next week, where have all the 195's gone?

I was at Piccadilly for a short while on Wednesday morning and noticed a couple of cl195s working to Rose Hill and to New Mills.

 

[Adam Evans]

What has to be remembered is that the LIV-MCO timetable was changed from two stoppers per hour to one. The second train was split into two with LIV-WAC and MCO-WAC stoppers. I never understood that move.

My undertstanding of the change (which I disagreed with anyway) was to allow for a more reliable and frequent service for some of the stations East of Warrington Central that previously only received a two-hourly service with an hourly stopping train calling at all stations between WAC and MCO alongside a stopper between WAC and LIV that would be timed to avoid interrupting the TPE and EMR express trains on each side.

However what they've done is effectively cut the regular service between WAC and MCO and replaced it with extra stops on the TPE Liverpool - Cleethorpes service. The WAC - MCO Northern stopper only operates during peak times at which time the TPE Cleethorpes train doesn't make the extra calls at Irlam and Urmston and instead calls at Warrington West.

The previously underserved stations such as Glazebrook, Chassen Road, Humphrey Park and Trafford Park haven't seen any benefit from the new service recast which from what I gathered was one of the main reasons for the change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The previously underserved stations such as Glazebrook, Chassen Road, Humphrey Park and Trafford Park haven't seen any benefit from the new service recast which from I gathered was one of the main reasons for the change.

There are any passengers at Glazebrook? There are ways this station could be made useful (more a subject for a speculative thread than here, so I'll not go into them) but as things are it having a sparse service isn't going to affect many.

 

[Adam Evans]

There are any passengers at Glazebrook? There are ways this station could be made useful (more a subject for a speculative thread than here, so I'll not go into them) but as things are it having a sparse service isn't going to affect many.

Well yes, I thought that too. I'm not against giving these stations a more frequent service if the demand and space is there. But if it comes at the expense of services at other stations with an already higher footfall then unfortunately I'm against.

Widnes and Halewood are the big losers of this recast. The former at least retains it's EMR express to Manchester, but people at the latter now have to change at WAC or LPY if they want to get to Manchester. I have a lot of friends in Halewood who aren't pleased about it and are baffled as to why they've suddenly lost their direct train to Manchester (given that they're not train nerds like me).

They really just need to build a passing loop or two along this route as there are far too many stations along this busy corridor for them all to be served regularly alongside the express trains without problems.

 

[8A Rail]

Well yes, I thought that too. I'm not against giving these stations a more frequent service if the demand and space is there. But if it comes at the expense of services at other stations with an already higher footfall then unfortunately I'm against.

Widnes and Halewood are the big losers of this recast. The former at least retains it's EMR express to Manchester, but people at the latter now have to change at WAC or LPY if they want to get to Manchester. I have a lot of friends in Halewood who aren't pleased about it and are baffled as to why they've suddenly lost their direct train to Manchester (given that they're not train nerds like me).

They really just need to build a passing loop or two along this route as there are far too many stations along this busy corridor for them all to be served regularly alongside the express trains without problems.

It is just not Widnes and Halewood who are losers but also Hunts Cross too. Strangely Hough Green and Warrington West keep an hourly service to / from Manchester. However, I would say welcome to the world of the L&M line between Liverpool and Manchester were there is only a hourly 3 coach (Class 323 or 331) service serving various stations along that line were a half hour service is required! The common denominator is 'Northern' providing an unacceptable service!

With regards to your latter thought, it is not 'passing loops' required although this is one at Glazebrook for westbound trains (does get used) but more to do with resignalling sections, as some sections are quite long but not sure were the money comes from for that unless one day the line finally gets electrified.

 

[sjm77]

My undertstanding of the change (which I disagreed with anyway) was to allow for a more reliable and frequent service for some of the stations East of Warrington Central that previously only received a two-hourly service with an hourly stopping train calling at all stations between WAC and MCO alongside a stopper between WAC and LIV that would be timed to avoid interrupting the TPE and EMR express trains on each side

The actual reason for the change was part of making the Castlefield Corridor more reliable and nothing to do with giving the lesser used stations a better service. The theory was supposed to be that freight would be stopped during the hours when the additional peak services run to keep a cap on the total services per hour though Castlefield.
In reality however container freight trains do still run when the peak Oxford Road - Warrington service runs!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is just not Widnes and Halewood who are losers but also Hunts Cross too.

Hunts X's importance really has declined since South Parkway opened, though, it now only really serves its immediate local area and no longer has a Parkway type role (though the car park is quite small anyway).

 

[Adam Evans]

The actual reason for the change was part of making the Castlefield Corridor more reliable and nothing to do with giving the lesser used stations a better service.

Yeah, I'm aware that was the main reason for the change, but I definitely remember reading somewhere that the lesser served stations would receive a more frequent service throughout the day (perhaps I misread it), although if that were the case it would've been a low priority if they were limited to a capped number of trains through the corridor.

Although I don't know why Oxford Road doesn't make better use of platform 1 which often remains empty throughout the day and just terminate the second LIV - MCO there if the Southport train is taking up the bay platform 5, or vice versa.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although I don't know why Oxford Road doesn't make better use of platform 1 which often remains empty throughout the day and just terminate the second LIV - MCO there if the Southport train is taking up the bay platform 5, or vice versa.

Because there's no lift.

 

[Adam Evans]

Ah, this I was not aware of. Here's hoping they rectifiy that, as any extra capacity is greatly needed there.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ah, this I was not aware of. Here's hoping they rectifiy that, as any extra capacity is greatly needed there.

That was part of the intended Picc/OxRd upgrade just abandoned, so no immediate prospect of change.
Both P1 and P5 are 105m long, so a 4-car is the limit in both.
There's very limited shelter on P1 to add to the lack of a lift.