Liverpool Stations

[gordonthemoron]

I have tickets to Liverpool Stations, in three weeks time, I’ll be arriving into Lime Street. Are these tickets valid for onward travel to James Street, or do I need to buy additional tickets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As long as they are not TOC specific, yes. But don't be in the slightest bit surprised if you get an argument on the outward journey - to avoid it, you may prefer to use the lift to access the Merseyrail platform at Lime St, as it avoids the gateline, though there are random checks there (usually at the top) because people know it does.

 

[M28361M]

Yes they are, unless there is a TOC restriction on the ticket barring use on Merseyrail.

The ticket barrier at Lime Street high level usually returns tickets instead of capturing them, because they can be used for onward travel in this way.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I have tickets to Liverpool Stations, in three weeks time, I’ll be arriving into Lime Street. Are these tickets valid for onward travel to James Street, or do I need to buy additional tickets?

What ticket type have you got, and what's the price paid?

 

[M28361M]

One thought that did just occur - are the tickets issued as "normal" paper tickets (either credit card sized or "bog roll" tickets)?

Merseyrail will not accept an e- or m-ticket.

 

[trainophile]

There's barriers to exit James Street station, so would that present a problem?

 

[Parjon]

I have tickets to Liverpool Stations, in three weeks time, I’ll be arriving into Lime Street. Are these tickets valid for onward travel to James Street, or do I need to buy additional tickets?

Yes it's valid. Your paper ticket should just open the barrier both ends, but if not just wave it at the staff member. They may ask where you're headed to, just to check you know where you're going.

They will not argue. They know it's valid. I am a daily user.

James Street won't bat an eyelid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's barriers to exit James Street station, so would that present a problem?

No. The gateline will open to exit as it's Liverpool Stations. It'll also be fine entering with your ticket from Liverpool Stations on the way back, the gateline will open

As others have said, though, as long as it's not an e-ticket or m-ticket (or TOC specific) - whether they should or not, under no circumstances will you get through a Merseyrail gateline with anything other than a paper ticket.

 

[trainophile]

No. The gateline will open to exit as it's Liverpool Stations. It'll also be fine entering with your ticket from Liverpool Stations on the way back, the gateline will open

As others have said, though, as long as it's not an e-ticket or m-ticket (or TOC specific) - whether they should or not, under no circumstances will you get through a Merseyrail gateline with anything other than a paper ticket.

Just to be pedantic, I asked at Southport station today, and apparently the newly fitted barriers do accept e-tickets, for access to Northern services.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The barrier at Lime St LL will swallow a Liverpool Stations cc-sized ticket if you put it through on arrival, and probably at all the central area stations.
No barrier on the lift route at Lime St though.

Lime St HL has barriers on the northern shed (mostly Northern/TPE, Chat Moss route), but not on the southern shed (mostly Avanti/WMT/EMR/CLC route).

 

[6Gman]

Yes it's valid. Your paper ticket should just open the barrier both ends, but if not just wave it at the staff member. They may ask where you're headed to, just to check you know where you're going.

They will not argue. They know it's valid. I am a daily user.

James Street won't bat an eyelid.

I've certainly had them argue with me !

And rather grudgingly let me through "this time".

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have any permitted e-tickets, haven’t used paper tickets in years, excepting London travelcards

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have any permitted e-tickets, haven’t used paper tickets in years, excepting London travelcards

In that case they won't, unfortunately, be accepted on Merseyrail, regardless of whether they should or not.

 

[Watershed]

I have any permitted e-tickets, haven’t used paper tickets in years, excepting London travelcards

In that case it's contractually valid - but good luck getting through the barriers

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

In that case it's contractually valid - but good luck getting through the barriers

Other than anecdotal remarks being made to a forum user, nobody seems to have reported actually being refused travel with an e-ticket on Merseyrail as far as I can tell.


The issues with Merseyrail have generally been more to do with people travelling just on TOD reference numbers when booking online etc,.but even that situation should be much improved now all ticket offices can fulfill the booking.

May not be as straightforward as it ought to be, but no reason not to believe a quick chat with the gate line assistants won't result in a positive, correct outcome.

Either way, it would be good if the experience of this passenger can be reported back! I'm sure it will be fine.

 

[trainophile]

Booking websites won't sell you e-tickets if your journey includes any leg on Merseyrail. Their conductors don't have the equipment to scan such tickets.

 

[Watershed]

Booking websites won't sell you e-tickets if your journey includes any leg on Merseyrail. Their conductors don't have the equipment to scan such tickets.

Their conductors don't tend to inspect tickets much. The gateline staff are more likely to be the source of any difficulties.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Their conductors don't tend to inspect tickets much. The gateline staff are more likely to be the source of any difficulties.

And it's really not worth spending time arguing when nowhere in Liverpool city centre is more than 20 minutes' walk away, it's very compact indeed. James St is just the other end of the main shopping street (Church St) from Lime St and Central, which themselves may as well be the same station, they're not much further apart than Manchester Pic main concourse to P14, the walk is about 6 minutes if you're fairly brisk, certainly I used to find that an arrival into Lime St at xx00 and a departure from Central at xx10 was easily achievable even with a stop to use the loo.

 

[erk]

Booking websites won't sell you e-tickets if your journey includes any leg on Merseyrail.

Doesn't that mean that a ticket from anywhere to Liverpool stations should not be an e-ticket because it might be used to travel to James Street? In practice, such e-tickets are issued.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't that mean that a ticket from anywhere to Liverpool stations should not be an e-ticket because it might be used to travel to James Street? In practice, such e-tickets are issued.

It depends on the itinerary you choose. If you want a paper ticket so you can go onwards to James St without hassle, enter James St as the destination and you'll get a paper ticket (or on sites that let you choose, just choose one).

Very few people will use Merseyrail for onward travel within Liverpool city centre because it's tiny. Nowhere is more than about 20 minutes' walk from Lime St.

 

[trainophile]

Just done a little experiment. Booking a National Rail journey (i.e. not a Merseyrail only journey) to destination Lime Street offers e-tickets, presumably as it's a Northern operated station, but booking to Liverpool South Parkway, which is a Merseyrail station despite serving other operators too, offers ToD only.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just done a little experiment. Booking a National Rail journey (i.e. not a Merseyrail only journey) to destination Lime Street offers e-tickets, presumably as it's a Northern operated station, but booking to Liverpool South Parkway, which is a Merseyrail station despite serving other operators too, offers ToD only.

Yes, that's how it should be set up. It's about time Merseyrail did accept e-tickets (crikey, all they need is to install an app on their gateline staff's phones to start with) but for now they indeed aren't meant to be sold on any itinerary involving them, even if the ticket might otherwise have validity on Merseyrail.

This is a pragmatic situation, because most people arriving at Lime St won't go onwards on Merseyrail within the city centre, as it's too compact to be worth it for most destinations. It's only worth it if it's tipping it down or you've got very heavy luggage and your destination is right next to one of the city centre Merseyrail stations.

 

[alistairlees]

It depends on the itinerary you choose. If you want a paper ticket so you can go onwards to James St without hassle, enter James St as the destination and you'll get a paper ticket (or on sites that let you choose, just choose one).

Very few people will use Merseyrail for onward travel within Liverpool city centre because it's tiny. Nowhere is more than about 20 minutes' walk from Lime St.

Tickets are set up to allow fulfilment as eTickets depending on:
- origin
- destination
- route code (e.g. any permitted)
- ticket type

It doesn't depend on the itinerary.

So a London Terminals to Liverpool Stations Off-Peak Single ticket will show as enabled for eTicket whether you go direct or via Chester, and whether you go to Liverpool Lime Street or to Liverpool James Street.

 

[urbophile]

It depends on the itinerary you choose. If you want a paper ticket so you can go onwards to James St without hassle, enter James St as the destination and you'll get a paper ticket (or on sites that let you choose, just choose one).

Very few people will use Merseyrail for onward travel within Liverpool city centre because it's tiny. Nowhere is more than about 20 minutes' walk from Lime St.

Much of central London is less than that distance from Euston, but many people prefer to use the tube. It's handy just to hop on a train to James Street, especially if it's raining, or you've got luggage, or just believe in getting your money's worth! Though it does depend on whether your destination is beyond James Street or on the Lime Street side of it - in which case it's probably a bit pointless.

 

[trainophile]

By the time you've got down the escalator at Lime Street, along the passageway, then through the Merseyrail gateline and down to the platform, you could just about be at James Street!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Much of central London is less than that distance from Euston, but many people prefer to use the tube. It's handy just to hop on a train to James Street, especially if it's raining, or you've got luggage, or just believe in getting your money's worth! Though it does depend on whether your destination is beyond James Street or on the Lime Street side of it - in which case it's probably a bit pointless.

It's really not. Central Liverpool is tiny. Central London is the size of a medium town.

Sure, Holborn (where my office is) is about 20 minutes' walk, but most things you'd want to go to are quite a bit further. Half an hour down to the Thames walking briskly, and far longer to the City (London is wider than it is long by a significant margin).

By the time you've got down the escalator at Lime Street, along the passageway, then through the Merseyrail gateline and down to the platform, you could just about be at James Street!

If doing an intra-Liverpool journey from Lime St on Merseyrail, always use the lift. Certainly going Lime St to Central I'm sure you walk further through the tunnels to go via the non-lift route than you would if you just walked down the street.

Tickets are set up to allow fulfilment as eTickets depending on:
- origin
- destination
- route code (e.g. any permitted)
- ticket type

It doesn't depend on the itinerary.

So a London Terminals to Liverpool Stations Off-Peak Single ticket will show as enabled for eTicket whether you go direct or via Chester, and whether you go to Liverpool Lime Street or to Liverpool James Street.

I sit corrected. I wonder if that causes many disputes?

Merseyrail really should sort this out. A cynic might suggest it's so they don't lose commission, but of course they could set up their own app and sales site if they wanted.

 

[fandroid]

Before my local SWR station got more than one gate with e-ticket readers, staff were always happy to just read what was stated on the e-ticket! Why can't Merseyrail do the same? No fancy kit required.

TfL staff at the ex GWR stations have been similarly cooperative with etickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Before my local SWR station got more than one gate with e-ticket readers, staff were always happy to just read what was stated on the e-ticket! Why can't Merseyrail do the same? No fancy kit required.

I suspect the reason they dislike e-tickets is that it would cost them a fortune in lost commission, as an awful lot of people would stop using the booking offices and switch to e-tickets.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

The issue at Merseyrail with smart ticketing is political - it will kill the already heavily, heavily subsidised booking offices, hence why ToD is bizarrely implemented there, allowing an interaction with the ticket office plus a higher commission fee can be charged to the original retailer.

Local government / mayor does not want to be seen to be closing the heavily staffed ticket offices, and they do not want an already extremely weak business case to be even weaker.

It would also skewer their mini market style ticket office/shop concepts, it relies on people being there to buy a ticket initially, and picking up impulse buys.

I still don't think anyone will actually have issues with genuine e-tickets being accepted, just a pain to have to manually show it to be let though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would also skewer their mini market style ticket office/shop concepts, it relies on people being there to buy a ticket initially, and picking up impulse buys.

This is already dead, most of them have closed, only leaving a few in Liverpool city centre. They're bad convenience stores coupled with bad ticket offices with a longer queue than necessary. Curiously though the Liverpool Central one remains, despite there being a Sainsburys Local directly outside.

They do need to bite the bullet and close the smaller booking offices (could be done by natural wastage as people leave) and move to TVM, e-ticket and contactless. The booking office at Aughton Park, for instance, is just a waste of space. They've decided to keep guards, so people can ask them for assistance if they need it.