LM Rail Sale - LM Only?

[Jeni]

I've done a search and gone back a couple of years but I can't find a definitive answer...

(Keeping the exact ticket quiet as I'll be exploiting a routing loophole)

I'm trying to buy an off peak return through the London Midland site, taking advantage of the Rail Sale. On this particular ticket there are not (usually) any LM only fares, just any permitted.

The rail sale page on their site states this:

Can I travel only on London Midland trains with my 'sale' ticket?

If your ticket is marked 'Any permitted' under the word 'route', then you can use any train operator for your journey. If your ticket is marked 'London Midland only' or similar, then your journey must only be on London Midland trains.

When you plan your journey online, the system will show you the trains on which your chosen ticket can be used.

Examples of routes where you can use any operator are: Birmingham to Shrewsbury, Rugby to Birmingham and Liverpool to Birmingham. Between Milton Keynes and London, the sale includes tickets that can be used only on London Midland trains, as well as slightly more expensive tickets that can be used on any train operator's services.

Yet, on the mixing desk, journeys involving other operators are greyed out and when clicking on the little i to get more information on the selected ticket, it also states this...

Availability:
This ticket is offered at a special online only discount. It is only available for travel on London Midland services. If you choose to collect your tickets via Ticket on Departure (TOD), please be aware that you need to allow at least 2 hours between making your booking and collecting your tickets.

Which seems to contradict what it says on the main rail sale page! Does anyone know if rail sale tickets, that are *usually* Any Permitted are restricted to LM only if used with the promotion?

 

[SS4]

It's Any Permitted where LM price the fare iirc

For example if you look up Birmingham New Street [BHM] to Crewe [CRE] it shows the 50% fares but the route is any permitted

 

[maniacmartin]

I suspect that a selection of Any Permitted fares have been added to the sale (possibly where London Midland price the flow), but not all Any Permitted fares for all flows are included in the sale.

 

[Jeni]

It's Any Permitted where LM price the fare iirc

For example if you look up Birmingham New Street [BHM] to Crewe [CRE] it shows the 50% fares but the route is any permitted

That shows the same "It is only available for travel on London Midland services" when you click the little i

 

[SS4]

It lets me select the 1020 VT service to Crewe as in the attached file.

 

[postye]

The tickets I purchased last week were printed "route - ANY PERMITTED" the only difference was ticket type "online only CDR"

 

[Jeni]

It's this bit that concerns me... (taken from the Crewe example)

 

[SS4]

That is odd, I've never actually used one on route any permitted so I'm not 100% but my guess is it'd act as a CDR. If you've got twitter perhaps it may be worth tweeting LM?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I've found something else odd about the online sale. I was checking fares between Milton Keynes and Leighton Buzzard and discovered the following:

1. Tickets are valid with Southern, I guess the fare is set by LM
2. There is no minimum fare for weekday use of Network Railcard, it's usually £13
3. The tickets are available for use until at least the end of May (I checked 29.05)

 

[MCW]

wait... now I'm confused... cause when I was looking at booking tickets for my rambling about in a week or two (not yet booked mind) it said that Worcester to Birmingham New street was £5 single. Now, do they mean its £5 sale price? or is it £5 before the sale price?

 

[kieron]

That shows the same "It is only available for travel on London Midland services" when you click the little i

It seems strange, but London Midland offer the tickets for sale with a specific itinerary, so should honour it.

They do seem to have chosen flows which include some routes which London Midland serve in their entirety (for instance, they offer discounts on Birmingham-Liverpool returns, but not Birmingham-Birkenhead ones), but they haven't restricted the offer within those flows, so you can also buy discounted Nantwich-Kirkby tickets.

 

[island]

I have previously used the ONLINE ONLY SVR tickets to travel on Virgin, for what it's worth.

 

[All Line Rover]

I have used them on Arriva Trains Wales (multiple times). Try Nantwich to Liverpool on the Mixing Deck, for example.

 

[Jeni]

The ticket that I'm planning to get is one that you'd usually use LM for on the "standard" route, however the route in using involves no LM, but still a permitted route, if that helps!

 

[dvboy]

I had similar issues with the last sale (Christmas) booking Birmingham - Bedford. Mon-Sat it would only let me choose LM trains, but on Sun & Bank Hols it let me choose via Leicester (XC and EMT) which was greyed out on the other days. The tickets printed Any Permitted.

 

[taxidave]

I used the LM rail sale last week between Birmingham and Liverpool and my ticket says under "Ticket type" ONLINE ONLY SVR "Route" VIA CREWE "validity" SEE RESTRICTIONS.
I only used LM trains because nobody seemed to know what trains it was valid on so I didn't take a chance. The LM guard said "I have never seen one of those before"!!

 

[pinguini]

I used one on a Virgin train on Monday; the guard was dubious of the ticket, but still accepted it. Route was "ANY PERMITTED"

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have used them on Arriva Trains Wales (multiple times). Try Nantwich to Liverpool on the Mixing Deck, for example.

Not always.
There are no sale fares Chester-Birmingham (Any Permitted, via Crewe), even though LM sets the fare.
I'm sure this is different to the previous sale, when I was able to buy an LM 50% ticket and use it on AW/VT with no problems.

 

[Jeni]

I think, because of the ambiguity and the fact I'll be exploiting a loophole, it may be best just to buy the undiscounted ticket!

Thanks for your help

 

[bb21]

Not always.
There are no sale fares Chester-Birmingham (Any Permitted, via Crewe), even though LM sets the fare.
I'm sure this is different to the previous sale, when I was able to buy an LM 50% ticket and use it on AW/VT with no problems.

I think LM have tightened the range of tickets their sale is valid on. It would appear this time that you will need to be able to obtain an itinerary solely on LM in addition to the fare being priced by LM to be able to get it at sale rates for CDRs. This restriction is seemingly less strict with SVRs.

Previously many more flows were eligible.

 

[sheff1]

In the last week I have used Sale tickets on 4 different TOCs without difficulty. I have not used LM once

 

[RJ]

I have previously used the ONLINE ONLY SVR tickets to travel on Virgin, for what it's worth.

With the Christmas offer, I bought copious Rugeley to Liverpool area tickets which flagged with the discount without a problem.

This time around, I can't get the discount to show for various LM priced Any Permitted fares, such as Hemel Hempstead to Canterbury or those covering significant sections of the MML. Nice offer but falls short of what is being advertised.

 

[bb21]

With the Christmas offer, I bought copious Rugeley to Liverpool area tickets which flagged with the discount without a problem.

This time around, I can't get the discount to show for various LM priced Any Permitted fares, such as Hemel Hempstead to Canterbury or those covering significant sections of the MML. Nice offer but falls short of what is being advertised.

Even the Christmas one was of a much narrower scope than previous sales, in which all LM-priced flows are discounted. Much less useful to stations along the MML nowadays.

 

[paul1609]

With the Christmas offer, I bought copious Rugeley to Liverpool area tickets which flagged with the discount without a problem.

This time around, I can't get the discount to show for various LM priced Any Permitted fares, such as Hemel Hempstead to Canterbury or those covering significant sections of the MML. Nice offer but falls short of what is being advertised.

How did LM ever become the owner of Canterbury to Hemel Hemstead? It would appear to be at least 65% Southeastern.

 

[RJ]

There are loads of "surprising" quirks in the system - just a case of finding and working them to your advantage.

In this case, someone doesn't want it to happen!