LM website wrong?

[faddy]

London Midland website shows Super Off Peak unavailable tomorrow (Saturday) for departure Liverpool South Parkway 15:43 changing Stafford arriving Euston 18:50.

Is this a) because the Stafford departure at 16:55 is between 16:30 and 19:30 and b) wrong, cos there's no such thing as an "off peak train"?

Assuming that I'm correct, can I expect LM conductors to be better informed than the website?

 

[tony_mac]

London Midland website shows Super Off Peak unavailable tomorrow (Saturday) for departure Liverpool South Parkway 15:43 changing Stafford arriving Euston 18:50.

Is this a) because the Stafford departure at 16:55 is between 16:30 and 19:30 and b) wrong, cos there's no such thing as an "off peak train"?

Assuming that I'm correct, can I expect LM conductors to be better informed than the website?

a) yes
It's always been like that, they are unable to fix it.
If you are fortunate enough to see an LM guard then there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, it's just wrong. A Liverpool South Parkway to London Euston Super Off-Peak Return route 'London Midland Only' @ £33.00 has restrictions LF:

Outward Travel

Not valid for travel on trains timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.
Not valid for travel on northbound services timed to depart any station before 10:30.
Not valid for travel on services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket after 16:29 and before 19:31 in either direction except on:
18:46 (Saturday service) from Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Crewe.
19:02 Crewe to Northampton.
A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

Notes

Break of journey is not permitted on the outward journey on any day except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

In the very, very unlikely occasion that anyone says anything about it, you can show them that page.

 

[faddy]

Yes, it's just wrong. A Liverpool South Parkway to London Euston Super Off-Peak Return route 'London Midland Only' @ £33.00 has restrictions LF:



In the very, very unlikely occasion that anyone says anything about it, you can show them that page.

A supplementary question after looking at the restrictions page: I note it says "Break of journey is not permitted on the outward journey on any day except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities." Does this mean that I (or rather the family member who's travelling) would be expected to get the next departure after arriving in Stafford (where they change trains), or could they leave to station to visit a friend so long as they complete their journey the same day? I imagine that even if not allowed the chances of this being detected are slight?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The quick answer is you don't need to get the next departure but you can't leave the station premises. You could get your friend to come and meet you for a drink in the station Starbucks, for example.

 

[faddy]

The quick answer is you don't need to get the next departure but you can't leave the station premises. You could get your friend to come and meet you for a drink in the station Starbucks, for example.

Does Stafford have barriers?

 

[Joe Paxton]

The quick answer is you don't need to get the next departure but you can't leave the station premises. You could get your friend to come and meet you for a drink in the station Starbucks, for example.

From a straightforward English language usage point-of-view, that does to my mind suggest a break in the journey.

I appreciate they'd be accessing station facilities, and a further (and different) reading of the restriction text essentially then permits a break in the journey if one is doing that.

I guess with all these things it's a bit ambiguous, and probably has to be, as the real world is a bit ambiguous too!

 

[faddy]

a) yes
It's always been like that, they are unable to fix it.

It must be far from rare across the network that the second or subsequent leg of an off-peak journey would be "peak" if it was a stand alone journey. Is this "bug" peculiar to London Midland or to this route?

 

[Paul Kelly]

It must be far from rare across the network that the second or subsequent leg of an off-peak journey would be "peak" if it was a stand alone journey. Is this "bug" peculiar to London Midland or to this route?

It's peculiar to fares that have afternoon peak restrictions applying to departure from any station. Traditionally fares that had afternoon peak restrictions applied them only to departures from a specific station or group of stations (e.g. London, Birmingham).

 

[yorkie]

Does Stafford have barriers?

In theory there could be a manual check at the entrance to platforms; they should permit passengers through to the concourse, to use station facilities.

 

[faddy]

In theory there could be a manual check at the entrance to platforms; they should permit passengers through to the concourse, to use station facilities.

Although the phrase used in the restriction is "station facilities", haven't I read discussion on these forums about access to "local" facilities being permitted, or did I dream it?

 

[Polarbear]

Does Stafford have barriers?

No, it's a barrier free station as things stand.

 

[martinsh]

Does Stafford have barriers?

In theory there could be a manual check at the entrance to platforms; they should permit passengers through to the concourse, to use station facilities.

It's been over a year since I last had a manual check there ...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The quick answer is you don't need to get the next departure but you can't leave the station premises. You could get your friend to come and meet you for a drink in the station Starbucks, for example.

The practical answer is that nobody gives a monkey's about same day break of journey on walk-ups even where banned, I've done it countless times and have never even been questioned. Those restrictions are there to disallow use to avoid higher fares for shorter journeys and to avoid re-use, not to stop you popping out for a quick Maccy's or whatever.

 

[Bletchleyite]

a) yes
It's always been like that, they are unable to fix it.

ISTR that you are correct here - the online planners can't be programmed to recognise "connecting services may be used to complete a journey begun at a permitted time". They can only do something based on the time of boarding of a train for a journey leg.

 

[faddy]

ISTR that you are correct here - the online planners can't be programmed to recognise "connecting services may be used to complete a journey begun at a permitted time". They can only do something based on the time of boarding of a train for a journey leg.

I can't help thinking that if a "feature" resulted in the offer for sale of cheap tickets for journeys for which they were invalid, rather than as here the withholding of cheap tickets for journeys for which they're valid, a fix would be found.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't help thinking that if a "feature" resulted in the offer for sale of cheap tickets for journeys for which they were invalid, rather than as here the withholding of cheap tickets for journeys for which they're valid, a fix would be found.

Quite. This is arguably fraud, because the TOC are obtaining pecuniary advantage through deception (as they know the issue exists and are doing nothing about it). Though I can't help but think that if the point was pushed they'd just tighten the restriction to remove the unimplementable line.

 

[faddy]

Those restrictions are there to disallow use to avoid higher fares for shorter journeys and to avoid re-use, not to stop you popping out for a quick Maccy's or whatever.

Why is the restriction on the outward leg rather than on the return, where the opportunity for re-use is greater due to longer validity?