LNER adverts

[Jurg]

I live in the West Midlands. Several times in the last week I've seen/heard several commercials for LNER on both TV and local radio. The nearest LNER stations to my area are at least an hour drive away. Does anyone have the slightest clue why they're advertising here?

 

[Fozz94]

In terms of radio I heard it today. Its a 'newslink' advert so will be heard on every commercial radio station that uses Sky News Radio content. I'm assuming they just wanted to gain a national presence although like you say isn't always relevant (I live in Wigan so I'm not sure I'll be boarding a LNER anytime soon!

 

[Iskra]

If you live out of area, you could still use them to buy tickets, which I assume would benefit them financially even if only on the interest earnt by them holding lots of money.

 

[BantamMenace]

If you live out of area, you could still use them to buy tickets, which I assume would benefit them financially even if only on the interest earnt by them holding lots of money.

This will be the primarily reason. There’s a mechanical calculation that divvies up a fare with a set percentage going to the retailer, someone on here will be able to provide that percentage. For that very reason I tend to always buy through Chiltern even if I’m not travelling with them. Their website, app and all round experience is better than most.

 

[route:oxford]

I live in the West Midlands. Several times in the last week I've seen/heard several commercials for LNER on both TV and local radio. The nearest LNER stations to my area are at least an hour drive away. Does anyone have the slightest clue why they're advertising here?

Not all commercial channels have region specific advertising.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This will be the primarily reason. There’s a mechanical calculation that divvies up a fare with a set percentage going to the retailer, someone on here will be able to provide that percentage. For that very reason I tend to always buy through Chiltern even if I’m not travelling with them. Their website, app and all round experience is better than most.

I think it's 5% commission for websites IIRC. Obviously they have to pay for all their running and fulfilment costs out of that - so there's not a huge amount of profit to be made. It explains why, for example, CrossCountry try to charge a fee for picking up a CrossCountry Advance at a ticket machine. They don't operate any machines and therefore don't get any revenue from the fees for picking up tickets, in the same way that almost all other operators do.

 

[47271]

I might consider returning to buy all my rail travel through LNER's useless website if they offered me the same functionality and benefits as East Coast did until 2015.

Since they're as desirable a ticketing channel as VTEC, which isn't very desirable at all, then they can advertise all they like but they're unlikely to pick up much in the way of extra business from the casual listener.

I too have seen a lot of outdoor advertising but, to be fair, this has been along the East Coast route - London, York and Edinburgh in the past week - so makes more sense.

 

[Jurg]

Thanks all. I get what some of you are saying about ticket sales, but I don't recall any part of the adverts talking about using their website to get tickets. Plus, if it really is a national campaign I'd be interested to know if the adverts are being aired in the West Country or Wales?

The whole thing seems pretty wasteful and pointless to me, I'd say they would be much better off focusing their advertising revenue on potential passengers.

 

[jimm]

I live in the West Midlands. Several times in the last week I've seen/heard several commercials for LNER on both TV and local radio. The nearest LNER stations to my area are at least an hour drive away. Does anyone have the slightest clue why they're advertising here?

Thanks all. I get what some of you are saying about ticket sales, but I don't recall any part of the adverts talking about using their website to get tickets. Plus, if it really is a national campaign I'd be interested to know if the adverts are being aired in the West Country or Wales?

The whole thing seems pretty wasteful and pointless to me, I'd say they would be much better off focusing their advertising revenue on potential passengers.

The TV advertising time will probably have been sold into the Central ITV broadcasting area which, as well as the West Midlands, covers the East Midlands, so the likes of Newark, Grantham and Retford and places that are within easy driving distance of those stations.

Increasingly, independent radio stations are owned by a handful of companies that are offering advertisers coverage across large parts of the country where they operate in package deals.

So what you are seeing and hearing most likely simply reflects those broadcasting industry factors, not anything else.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I am seeing the LNER adverts here in North Wales.
The previous Virgin ones were at least generic and worked for both VTWC and VTEC.
We also get the GWR Famous 5 adverts, which are about as useful to us up here as those for bank holiday furniture sales in Bridgend!

 

[DarloRich]

I live in the West Midlands. Several times in the last week I've seen/heard several commercials for LNER on both TV and local radio. The nearest LNER stations to my area are at least an hour drive away. Does anyone have the slightest clue why they're advertising here?

Becuase they had a national ad buy and want to drive you to visit their website to buy tickets.

 

[swt_passenger]

It does seem almost national coverage, to add to all above I'm seeing it in Southampton, we get ITV Meridian on the satellite, in a common feed with Kent and Sussex.

 

[J-Rod]

Increasingly, independent radio stations are owned by a handful of companies that are offering advertisers coverage across large parts of the country where they operate in package deals.

So what you are seeing and hearing most likely simply reflects those broadcasting industry factors, not anything else.

That is indeed correct, sir.

 

[pt_mad]

I live in the West Midlands. Several times in the last week I've seen/heard several commercials for LNER on both TV and local radio. The nearest LNER stations to my area are at least an hour drive away. Does anyone have the slightest clue why they're advertising here?

Yes a close relative of mine lives near the centre of England and mentioned they'd seen an LNER advert several times during a programme last week dispite them not running from Birmingham.

I do wonder whether this will just cause confusion amongst some of the public as you have LNR in the Midlands and then LNER advertising things on TV, and potentially GNWR running services through the Midlands this or maybe next year. What's more some may think the red style of LNER looks to someone only half paying attention like Virgin Trains services out of Birmingham.

 

[transmanche]

I do wonder whether this will just cause confusion amongst some of the public as you have LNR in the Midlands and then LNER advertising things on TV, and potentially GNWR running services through the Midlands this or maybe next year.

If London Northwestern traded as 'LNR' then I might agree with you. But they don't, so I really don't see how they would get confused with LNER.

As for GNWR: personally, I think it'd better if they used the 'Grand Central' brand for all their open access services. Share marketing effort and create the impression of a national brand. Then national advertising wouldn't appear to be a waste.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If London Northwestern traded as 'LNR' then I might agree with you. But they don't, so I really don't see how they would get confused with LNER.

As for GNWR: personally, I think it'd better if they used the 'Grand Central' brand for all their open access services. Share marketing effort and create the impression of a national brand. Then national advertising wouldn't appear to be a waste.

I suppose it's possible that GNWR will just be the legal name, and that the trading name of Grand Central will still be used (although it's very inaccurate from a historical viewpoint, given neither "leg" of operations would be on Great Central routes!).

 

[transmanche]

I suppose it's possible that GNWR will just be the legal name, and that the trading name of Grand Central will still be used (although it's very inaccurate from a historical viewpoint, given neither "leg" of operations would be on Great Central routes!).

TBH, I always thought Grand Central was a daft name for a Sunderland-London service via the Durham Coast line and the ECML, Sunderland being neither Grand nor Central. But it's now an established brand identity, so if I owned it I'd want to make the most of it.

 

[pt_mad]

If London Northwestern traded as 'LNR' then I might agree with you. But they don't, so I really don't see how they would get confused with LNER.

As for GNWR: personally, I think it'd better if they used the 'Grand Central' brand for all their open access services. Share marketing effort and create the impression of a national brand. Then national advertising wouldn't appear to be a waste.

LNR does appear on operator specific tickets however.

Also to note that London North Eastern Railway isn't all that different from London Northwestern Railway. Likewise Great North Western Railway.

 

[pt_mad]

TBH, I always thought Grand Central was a daft name for a Sunderland-London service via the Durham Coast line and the ECML, Sunderland being neither Grand nor Central. But it's now an established brand identity, so if I owned it I'd want to make the most of it.

Grand Central would certainly seem the logical brand name for the Blackpool operation on the face of it.

I just can't help thinking, with so many brands about that adding another one into the mix in an area which isn't served by that operator does not make a lot of sense in terms of making the railways appear simple.

Someone watching might think 'eh that looks good, nice looking trains, look luxurious, there's talk of visiting York, I'd like to visit York, LNER'. Then either notice that the Midlands is not on the list of cities, or realise you can't travel to York from Birmingham on LNER. They already have a big long red intercity brand in the Midlands I'm not sure there is much logical reason to advertise another one into the mix?

 

[Flying Snail]

Anyone actually watch the current LNER ad, sweeping shots of the new trains outside and in with happy people and sheep onboard sitting on...seats from the current HST/mk4 fleet.

Considering the widespread dislike of the seating on the 800s that has to be a bit of a Freudian slip.

 

[pt_mad]

...sweeping shots of the new trains outside and in with happy people and sheep onboard sitting on...seats from the current HST/mk4 fleet.

Realistic ad then...?

I suppose it's no less realistic than that one featuring an electric tilting train coming out of the illuminated tunnel of love with no overheads...

 

[Flying Snail]

Realistic ad then...?

I suppose it's no less realistic than that one featuring an electric tilting train coming out of the illuminated tunnel of love with no overheads...

It's just the lengths they have gone to, either physically installing or CGI painting Mallard seating into the interior of an 800. Maybe the director took one look at the nasty yokes they were actually trying to sell to the public and thought better of it.

 

[pt_mad]

It's just the lengths they have gone to, either physically installing or CGI painting Mallard seating into the interior of an 800. Maybe the director took one look at the nasty yokes they were actually trying to sell to the public and thought better of it.

Are you sure it's CGI or were the sheep actually filmed sitting in there?

Certainly adds new meaning to the train being 'rammed'.

 

[47271]

Anyone actually watch the current LNER ad, sweeping shots of the new trains outside and in with happy people and sheep onboard sitting on...seats from the current HST/mk4 fleet.

Considering the widespread dislike of the seating on the 800s that has to be a bit of a Freudian slip.

Pretentious twaddle is my take on it, and I take the point on the old seats. And the trains look badly lit (certainly not IETs with their dentistry standard lighting then) and overcrowded. There's very little that I see that would make me want to use their services if I didn't know about them already.

King's Cross tube is plastered with equally incomprehensible posters. An agency has taken them for a ride I think

Would they not have been better waiting until they'd fully implemented the IETs and gone full on with a straightforward campaign on benefits delivered, now seems a very odd time to be spending a packet on marketing?

 

[pt_mad]

Must admit I did really like this advert...

(All credit and rights belong to the publisher and creators and this is merely a link which becomes embedded by default)

Especially with the use of the slogan this is our LNER. Which it kind of actually is at present.

 

[causton]

Knowing someone who was involved in the latest LNER TV advert, those who are not in the film and commercial industry may be surprised to know that the carriage was actually mocked up and all the filming for the train interior done in eastern Europe, nowhere near the UK, as it is cheaper than doing it over here! So that may be why the interior doesn't look 100% accurate

 

[Jurg]

Must admit I did really like this advert...

(All credit and rights belong to the publisher and creators and this is merely a link which becomes embedded by default)

Especially with the use of the slogan this is our LNER. Which it kind of actually is at present.

Yeah, nothing there about buying tickets online whatsoever, as per my recollection. Not even a website url. The idea that this campaign is intended to pull in a load of online ticket commission that would've otherwise gone to other TOCs seems a bit far-fetched to me. I think it's just badly targeted.

 

[RAPC]

As someone who works in the media planning world (we plan where to stick the ads and buy them etc), I've had a look at some of the data on this. The TV is running nationally, even on channels where it could be regionally targeted to avoid wastage. For radio, it looks like national distribution as well, despite radio mainly being regional by nature. It is a very dubious bit of planning to say the least.

Sometimes you end up with national campaigns due to some distress inventory being offered up late on as a short term buy. Having spoken to friends on the sales side, these were planned and bought a while back, so this isn't the case here. I know the agency involved have paid above pool prices (market averages), so it hasn't been well bought.

The creative executions are brand ads as others have said, with no call to action to book online or to promote their ticketing services.

Nothing wrong at all with the creative work, it's a nice campaign. The media implementation defies any obvious logic, which means that it has potentially been poorly planned, or the client was keen to go national and briefed it in that way.

The latter would be surprising, but it can happen. As someone who now works with clients directly to audit their marketing, from the outside looking in, this is poorly implemented and doesn't appear to be a particularly effective way to support the business. Sometimes there are specific reasons for a particular approach, but my gut feel is that the change of media team from VTEC to LNER will be the cause behind this. They are currently pouring a lot of wasted money away with this campaign.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

As someone who works in the media planning world (we plan where to stick the ads and buy them etc), I've had a look at some of the data on this. The TV is running nationally, even on channels where it could be regionally targeted to avoid wastage. For radio, it looks like national distribution as well, despite radio mainly being regional by nature. It is a very dubious bit of planning to say the least.

Sometimes you end up with national campaigns due to some distress inventory being offered up late on as a short term buy. Having spoken to friends on the sales side, these were planned and bought a while back, so this isn't the case here. I know the agency involved have paid above pool prices (market averages), so it hasn't been well bought.

The creative executions are brand ads as others have said, with no call to action to book online or to promote their ticketing services.

Nothing wrong at all with the creative work, it's a nice campaign. The media implementation defies any obvious logic, which means that it has potentially been poorly planned, or the client was keen to go national and briefed it in that way.

The latter would be surprising, but it can happen. As someone who now works with clients directly to audit their marketing, from the outside looking in, this is poorly implemented and doesn't appear to be a particularly effective way to support the business. Sometimes there are specific reasons for a particular approach, but my gut feel is that the change of media team from VTEC to LNER will be the cause behind this. They are currently pouring a lot of wasted money away with this campaign.

An interesting insight, thank you. It's rather odd, since LNER seem to be making big changes (and improvements, at least for them financially speaking) in yield management, and then they are wasting it away here.

 

[RAPC]

An interesting insight, thank you. It's rather odd, since LNER seem to be making big changes (and improvements, at least for them financially speaking) in yield management, and then they are wasting it away here.

Indeed. From what I can see, they have retained some of the best people from VTEC and they are making great strides in their digital channels and with their CRM and customer engagement. What I did notice is that some of the marketing leaders seem to have moved to digital channels and I'm not sure if they have a Marketing Director / CMO role in post at the moment. It could be that there is a commercial rather than a marketing lead briefing this work out, which could be another reason why the output isn't as tight as it should be.