LNER app saying Super Off Peak Single (SSS) not valid via York if you get GC from KGX-YRK

[mm333]

I travelled from Kings Cross-Shipley today, and with it being a Friday, there was no restrictions and I could get a Super Off-Peak single for £69.50.

But I noticed when using the LNER app that travelling via York - which is a valid route - if you get a GC service to York and then change, you will only be offered the Anytime Single at £160.

BRFares says there’s no TOC restriction on the SSS tickets, so I can’t see why GC to York is being quoted as the most expensive ticket.

 

[plugwash]

I suspect it's an issue related to pseudo-compulsory reservations.

 

[Watershed]

It's because GC continue to falsely mark their trains as reservations compulsory, and then also discriminate on the availability of said reservations based on whether the route of the ticket being bought is "Grand Central only".

It's unclear whether this a deliberate policy to increase the amount of revenue they get (they get 100% of GC only tickets", but only the ORCATS allocation of interavailable tickets) or simply a monumental mistake, but either way it's unacceptable because it's causing people to be overcharged or unduly restricted. You're not the first person to notice it either.

 

[Haywain]

but only the ORCATS allocation of interavailable tickets

And they don't rely on passengers being able to obtain reservations or even use their trains to receive that.

 

[mikeg]

Indeed there was a thread earlier about this. GC are engaging in a highly anticompetitive practice of only allowing reservations to be made automatically when purchasing GC only flows. Since they've marked the train compulsory reservations it can't be bought. It gets worse than this, there are many routes which rely on GC as a connection but now it won't sell a ticket. Of course the solution is to go to a ticket office but they're planning of closing those. The railway really hates its customers at times. And GC wants to receive ORCATS money without doing any work.

We all need to put pressure on GC and any regulators to stop this practice, but so far my appeals have fallen on deaf ears.

 

[fandroid]

Can a passenger with a valid non-TOC-specific ticket just walk on to a GC service without a reservation?

 

[Class800]

Can a passenger with a valid non-TOC-specific ticket just walk on to a GC service without a reservation?

yes

 

[Watershed]

Can a passenger with a valid non-TOC-specific ticket just walk on to a GC service without a reservation?

Yes. Just as with Avanti, LNER and Lumo, the "reservations compulsory" marking in GC's timetable data is entirely fictitious. There is no requirement to actually hold a reservation in order to use their services - although there is, naturally, no guarantee of being able to sit down in the absence of a reservation.

 

[APT618S]

Can a passenger with a valid non-TOC-specific ticket just walk on to a GC service without a reservation?

If you have/open an account with GWR you can book a seat reservation on the GC (and other Train Operating Companies) if you so wish.

Seat reservations | Great Western Railway

Reserving a seat can sometimes be confusing. So, we’ve put together a quick guide to help when you plan your journey.

www.gwr.com

 

[Adam Williams]

Yes. Just as with Avanti, LNER and Lumo, the "reservations compulsory" marking in GC's timetable data is entirely fictitious. There is no requirement to actually hold a reservation in order to use their services - although there is, naturally, no guarantee of being able to sit down in the absence of a reservation.

I heard recently that this practice had been evaluated and considered to likely be illegal, as it constitutes a breach of the Consumer Rights Act & Equality Act due to the misinformation it causes online TISs to show when walk-ups are freely available on the same trains, and the trains are incorrectly shown as "sold out". Rather surprisingly (to me), this conclusion has actually been drawn by parties which operate within the wider rail industry. Of course, it's a practice which has long been condemned on this forum.

Quite an embarrassing own-goal for the "innovative" train operators who have "pioneered" this airline-on-wheels nonsense.

 

[plugwash]

The compulsory reservations started as a reaction to Covid and I belive at one stage they were actually enforcing them at some locations.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Surely no services should be allowed to be compulsory reservation at all now? With the possible exception of the sleepers. But I still see the marker all over the place on RTT (TPE, Avanti at least)

 

[Watershed]

Surely no services should be allowed to be compulsory reservation at all now? With the possible exception of the sleepers. But I still see the marker all over the place on RTT (TPE, Avanti at least)

Unfortunately neither the DfT nor ORR seem have the slightest in stopping operators from perpetuating this nonsense, which was snuck in under the guise of "social distancing" during Covid. So who is going to stop them?

The compulsory reservations started as a reaction to Covid and I belive at one stage they were actually enforcing them at some locations.

Very occasionally, yes - which was utterly unacceptable. But it's certainly no longer the case, and hasn't been for a long time.

There's no excuse for operators having failed to remove the flag by now; it's a deliberate decision made because it happens to be operationally and commercially convenient to "stop" people from buying tickets when they haven't yet bothered to decide what trains they'll be running.

 

[robbeech]

I heard recently that this practice had been evaluated and considered to likely be illegal, as it constitutes a breach of the Consumer Rights Act & Equality Act

This isn’t something the railway is concerned about. To put it simply and generally, laws do not apply to the railway.

Very occasionally, yes - which was utterly unacceptable. But it's certainly no longer the case, and hasn't been for a long time.

Hull Trains will still try to prevent you boarding at King’s Cross without a reservation unless you remind them of your rights on very very busy services at awkward weekends (such as when there are diversions and planned disruption). This has happened as recently as this year.

 

[2192]

I travelled from Kings Cross-Shipley today, and with it being a Friday, there was no restrictions and I could get a Super Off-Peak single for £69.50.

But I noticed when using the LNER app that travelling via York - which is a valid route - if you get a GC service to York and then change, you will only be offered the Anytime Single at £160.

BRFares says there’s no TOC restriction on the SSS tickets, so I can’t see why GC to York is being quoted as the most expensive ticket.

What's SSS?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What's SSS?

Usually, it means the (Standard class) ticket type "Super Off Peak Single".

 

[infobleep]

I heard recently that this practice had been evaluated and considered to likely be illegal, as it constitutes a breach of the Consumer Rights Act & Equality Act due to the misinformation it causes online TISs to show when walk-ups are freely available on the same trains, and the trains are incorrectly shown as "sold out". Rather surprisingly (to me), this conclusion has actually been drawn by parties which operate within the wider rail industry. Of course, it's a practice which has long been condemned on this forum.

Quite an embarrassing own-goal for the "innovative" train operators who have "pioneered" this airline-on-wheels nonsense.

So now they agree it's illegal, what are they doing about it? Nothing and hoping they will continue to get away with it?

 

[Adam Williams]

So now they agree it's illegal, what are they doing about it? Nothing and hoping they will continue to get away with it?

"Developing a roadmap to work on a collaborative approach to find a solution"

This programme is being led by an outsourced team of business management consultants, as far as I know.

I'm not aware that any timescales were given for a resolution.

 

[TUC]

"Developing a roadmap to work on a collaborative approach to find a solution"

This programme is being led by an outsourced team of business management consultants, as far as I know.

I'm not aware that any timescales were given for a resolution.

What is there to collaborate on regarding an illegal practice? It implies that a compromise is being sought. Why should passengers lose out due to TOCs not following the law?

 

[sheff1]

Why should passengers lose out due to TOCs not following the law?

Indeed, but it happens on a daily basis and the alleged Regulator shows no interest in doing anything about it.