Hi people, quick question about LNERs drivers railway pension, does anyone have any information as to whether or not it "final salary defined contribution" or "Final salary defined benefit"? Or something completely different?!? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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LNER drivers pension
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There is no such thing as a " final salary defined contribution"
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Thanks not quite the information I'm after, all I want to know is are they in a defined benefit section like myself (ARL driver). Some companies are and some are not... For example EMR are in a defined contribution railway pension section. The two schemes are very different.
theironroad
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I'd be surprised if all EMR staff are in a defined contribution scheme.
I think the older drivers are in DB schemes....
theironroad
Established Member
I've just looked at EMRs current vacancies (all non driving ) and 2/3 say the post comes with a defined benefit scheme pension. The third vacancy says a "fantastic" pension so your guess is as good as mine on that one.
Most tocs still offer DB schemes from what I understand , though that's not guaranteed. I think network rail offer DC initially but other options as well.
Who knows what open access operators offer, but having just watched east coast trains ltd (not to be confused with the existing operator) video I'd imagine they don't offer DB but don't quote me on that!
I fear that now LNER is now run by government new drivers pensions at that TOC will not be as good, as my current driver pension.
theironroad
Established Member
LNER is still a current TOC, regardless that's it's operated on behalf of the government.
East Coast Trains Ltd is an open access operator backed by First Group who want to disrupt the the current method of working.
The two aren't to be confused.
How long ECTL will last is another question.
Intermodal
Established Member
Public sector workers have some of the best pensions in the country. NHS, civil service, police, etc.
Not necessarily true anymore... think it would be fairer to say some public sector workers have good pensions but many have had their benefits severely eroded. Police pensions were fantastic but now you're expected to work to 60 or 65 with increased contributions to end up with the same benefits that once you would have drawn from 50 onwards. Quite how you are expected to still be fit enough to arrest a violent 20 year old when you are pushing on 60 is up for debate. Fire Brigade pensions have gone the same way as have many others. They aren't what they used to be and the number of DB schemes is dwindling year by year.
Additionally, many public sector workers no longer truly work for the public sector but for private companies under PFI contracts... not very many DB pensions being offered there....
whoosh
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Defined benefit.
Although the railway companies still say they are 'final salary' it isn't quite that straight forward, as after 2016 there is now an RPI+0.25% cap per year on the part of the pension that is "all service". Any pay rise above that, gets a "pension restructuring premium" for future service only.
This wasn't mentioned at all, in an article a couple of months ago in the Financial Times, about how costly the Railway Pension Scheme is. In fact it was written as if this change hadn't taken place - with the change from age 60 to 62 for when benefits pay out also completely disregarded. I'd have expected more from a so called expert in a financial publication where facts and figures should be accurate.
Although the railway companies still say they are 'final salary' it isn't quite that straight forward, as after 2016 there is now an RPI+0.25% cap per year on the part of the pension that is "all service". Any pay rise above that, gets a "pension restructuring premium" for future service only.
This wasn't mentioned at all, in an article a couple of months ago in the Financial Times, about how costly the Railway Pension Scheme is. In fact it was written as if this change hadn't taken place - with the change from age 60 to 62 for when benefits pay out also completely disregarded. I'd have expected more from a so called expert in a financial publication where facts and figures should be accurate.
It's defined benefit based on two thirds of salary after 40 yrs contributions. Deductions are made on a sliding scale for early receipt before 62/63 yrs age. Old hands can have a different retirement age of 60 if they chose to pay the higher contributons when the shortfalls in the fund occurred some years ago.
Final salary schemes where phased out years and years ago(30/40) as the scheme could not stand it. No scheme can pay out money it does not get in, so no final salary.
If a driver moves to another grade the pension contributions becomes payable for that grade so the pension payout also matches that contribution for the relevant years.
So if one stays a driver for 40 yrs and takes the pension at 62/63 he gets 2/3 his salary including the state pension. Not 2/3 plus the state pension, as some think.
If a driver does 20 yrs and then 20 years as a drivers manager on retirement he gets 2/3 at 20yrs drivers pay and 20 yrs at drivers managers pay. Not 40yrs at drivers managers pay.
So in reality the scheme is a career average earnings scheme which is defined benefit (2/3 of salary) after 40 years of contributions.
Which is the same as all other employees in LNER.
62/63 is because I cannot quite remember the retirement date for new entrants that applied from 2016ish.
patwreynolds
Member
Does anyone have an idea what the contribution percentages are for the new joiner LNER pensions?
Thank you for the information Falcon
Steve
Let's hope long term, Their other OA Hull Trains recently celebrated 20years. Lets be honest the railway needs a bit of shaking up, there are some good practices and some that need updating.
They aren't after poaching LNER passengers either, more about encouraging those that fly between Edinburgh and London to use the train, being more eco friendly. Being sustainable is one of the key points ECTL are going for judging by the info on First. I personally think they'll do really well, fast trains between London and Edinburgh with few stops, all standard class seating so no empty first class coaches travelling around, every seat should be filled and with low fares I don't see why not. I want to see them succeed! ... but we digress
theironroad
Established Member
Yeah I've seen the promo and it's if this idea of attracting people from planes to trains is a new one.
Various operators such as Virgin, GNER etc have spent the best part of two decades trying to attract passengers onto their respective services and away from the London to Glasgow/Edinburgh flight flows.
If ECTL or anyone else thinks that all there passengers will be new to rails and not attracted from the incumbent in a large proportion then I feel they are misguided. Sure, some new passengers may be attracted but otherwise it's just splitting the current market.
Even before the pandemic, rail travel in the UK is set to expand so they'll be in the right place to pick up some of the traffic.
But in the mean time, given two options...
LNER, fast service at 4hr 26m still has 5 stops and its £74 advance fare
ECTL, plan on running Kings Cross-Newcastle-Edinburgh only on most services by looks of it, with only selected services stopping at Stevenage or Morpeth, planning on being first arrival in Edinburgh from London, with average fares of around £30.. journey time could even just be under 4hours if the service is 1 stop.
I know who I'd choose if i was travelling based on budget
But in the mean time, given two options...
LNER, fast service at 4hr 26m still has 5 stops and its £74 advance fare
ECTL, plan on running Kings Cross-Newcastle-Edinburgh only on most services by looks of it, with only selected services stopping at Stevenage or Morpeth, planning on being first arrival in Edinburgh from London, with average fares of around £30.. journey time could even just be under 4hours if the service is 1 stop.
I know who I'd choose if i was travelling based on budget
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