LNER Station Platform Zones

[ryan125hst]

I noticed a number of months ago that Zone letters had been applied to the platforms at Retford station, but nothing seemed to refer to them on the departure boards. LNER had altered the fixed coach letter boards to better suit the Azuma lettering upon there introduction, but it still wasn't perfect for 10 car trains as it didn't make any indication of the presence of first class in the middle of the train. It was even worse for 5 car trains where coach E would be next to the board for M for example (I think this is the case at stations such as Grantham and Wakefield Westgate.

I went to pick my sister up from the station yesterday and noticed that the zones are now being displayed as follows. It was a 9 car Azuma heading to London:

1st class zones 1 to 3.
Standard class zones 4 to 9.
Train formation (Zones 1 to 9)
M L K J H G C B A

The screen cycled between this and the usual calling points and train layout information. I think it's a great idea given the 5, 9 and 10 coach formations and different stopping positions.

It is even more useful in the event of a 10 coach train. I saw this as I found that the zone information appears on the Tiger departure boards website. For a 10 car it appears as follows:

1st class zones 1, 2, 6 and 7.
Standard class zones 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10.
Train formation (Zones 1 to 10)
M K H G F E D C B A

When were these markings added to the platform?

When did the zones first start appearing on the Customer Information System (CIS)?

It's interesting to see that even the Low Level platforms have Retford have these. I was unsure why it was showing zones 4 and 5 for Lincoln bound trains and zones 2 and 3 for Sheffield bound trains until I saw photos on Flickr showing they had been added to platforms 3 and 4 as well.

It also seems that some platforms have got a lot of zones. From looking at photos and videos, it seems that platform 3A and 3B at Doncaster has a total of 15 zones, platform 4 at Darlington has 18 zones (northbound trains seem to call at zones 18 to 10) and York platform 3 and 4 zones are continuous and range from 1 to 20!

 

[londonmidland]

All LNER stations will get new Customer Information Systems. This includes new customer information
screens, as well as automated station announcements.

As part of a successful trial, York and Newcastle have received it, however as of yet, the announcing of zones is very limited for services. So it’ll just say the standard ‘First Class accommodation is at the front/rear of the train’ for the majority of services. It does announce train formations, however.

The new system will be rolled out across all LNER stations over the coming months.

 

[800001]

All LNER stations will get new Customer Information Systems. This includes new customer information
screens, as well as automated station announcements.

As part of a successful trial, York and Newcastle have received it, however as of yet, the announcing of zones is very limited for services. So it’ll just say the standard ‘First Class accommodation is at the front/rear of the train’ for the majority of services. It does announce train formations, however.

The new system will be rolled out across all LNER stations over the coming months.

York and King's Cross won't be getting new information screens.

 

[londonmidland]

York and King's Cross won't be getting new information screens.

York has already got its new customer information screens and Kings Cross is managed by Network Rail, not LNER.

 

[applepie2100]

I've just spent the weekend in York and noticed the extra information on the screens and in the automated announcements. I did notice though that one announcement referred to Zones 16-18 on one of the platforms. Is it's not a touch overkill to have so many zones when they do it quite well in European countries with around eight, usually A-H? Don't get me wrong, it's very useful but just feels a bit overkill along with all the other stuff you get bombarded with now!

 

[800001]

York has already got its new customer information screens and Kings Cross is managed by Network Rail, not LNER.

York had new screens a couple of years ago. All the other stations are getting brand new screens which will show much more info in a colourful way, and can even show proper pictures. So in this context, no, York has not already got its new customer information screen.

 

[londonmidland]

York had new screens a couple of years ago. All the other stations are getting brand new screens which will show much more info in a colourful way, and can even show proper pictures. So in this context, no, York has not already got its new customer information screen.

Ah, I didn’t know that. Any idea of which manufacturer will be supplying the screens?

 

[tommy2215]

I've just spent the weekend in York and noticed the extra information on the screens and in the automated announcements. I did notice though that one announcement referred to Zones 16-18 on one of the platforms. Is it's not a touch overkill to have so many zones when they do it quite well in European countries with around eight, usually A-H? Don't get me wrong, it's very useful but just feels a bit overkill along with all the other stuff you get bombarded with now!

Given how long some of the platforms are and the length of one Azuma coach what is the possible alternative?

 

[cactustwirly]

I noticed a number of months ago that Zone letters had been applied to the platforms at Retford station, but nothing seemed to refer to them on the departure boards. LNER had altered the fixed coach letter boards to better suit the Azuma lettering upon there introduction, but it still wasn't perfect for 10 car trains as it didn't make any indication of the presence of first class in the middle of the train. It was even worse for 5 car trains where coach E would be next to the board for M for example (I think this is the case at stations such as Grantham and Wakefield Westgate.

I went to pick my sister up from the station yesterday and noticed that the zones are now being displayed as follows. It was a 9 car Azuma heading to London:

1st class zones 1 to 3.
Standard class zones 4 to 9.
Train formation (Zones 1 to 9)
M L K J H G C B A

The screen cycled between this and the usual calling points and train layout information. I think it's a great idea given the 5, 9 and 10 coach formations and different stopping positions.

It is even more useful in the event of a 10 coach train. I saw this as I found that the zone information appears on the Tiger departure boards website. For a 10 car it appears as follows:

1st class zones 1, 2, 6 and 7.
Standard class zones 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10.
Train formation (Zones 1 to 10)
M K H G F E D C B A

When were these markings added to the platform?

When did the zones first start appearing on the Customer Information System (CIS)?

It's interesting to see that even the Low Level platforms have Retford have these. I was unsure why it was showing zones 4 and 5 for Lincoln bound trains and zones 2 and 3 for Sheffield bound trains until I saw photos on Flickr showing they had been added to platforms 3 and 4 as well.

It also seems that some platforms have got a lot of zones. From looking at photos and videos, it seems that platform 3A and 3B at Doncaster has a total of 15 zones, platform 4 at Darlington has 18 zones (northbound trains seem to call at zones 18 to 10) and York platform 3 and 4 zones are continuous and range from 1 to 20!

GWR stations have had this for a while now

 

[800001]

I've just spent the weekend in York and noticed the extra information on the screens and in the automated announcements. I did notice though that one announcement referred to Zones 16-18 on one of the platforms. Is it's not a touch overkill to have so many zones when they do it quite well in European countries with around eight, usually A-H? Don't get me wrong, it's very useful but just feels a bit overkill along with all the other stuff you get bombarded with now!

That will most likely of been plat 3 or 5, look at the length of platform especially 5 where lner stop at both ends of platforms depending on direction of travel.

 

[ryan125hst]

I've just spent the weekend in York and noticed the extra information on the screens and in the automated announcements. I did notice though that one announcement referred to Zones 16-18 on one of the platforms. Is it's not a touch overkill to have so many zones when they do it quite well in European countries with around eight, usually A-H? Don't get me wrong, it's very useful but just feels a bit overkill along with all the other stuff you get bombarded with now!

I'd imagine it'll be something like Zones 1-9 for a Southbound Azuma and 18-10 for a Northbound (if 9 car, It'll be 1-10 and 18-9 respectively if a 10 car) as I think they stop at different ends of the platform so as to be closer to the signal for the appropriate direction.

York had new screens a couple of years ago. All the other stations are getting brand new screens which will show much more info in a colourful way, and can even show proper pictures. So in this context, no, York has not already got its new customer information screen.

Having seen the ones in York I'm already impressed with those. When you say "in a colourful way", do you mean full colour LCD screens. I think they already have them at some Greater Anglia stations. Great news if that is the case.

 

[800001]

I'd imagine it'll be something like Zones 1-9 for a Southbound Azuma and 18-10 for a Northbound (if 9 car, It'll be 1-10 and 18-9 respectively if a 10 car) as I think they stop at different ends of the platform so as to be closer to the signal for the appropriate direction.

Having seen the ones in York I'm already impressed with those. When you say "in a colourful way", do you mean full colour LCD screens. I think they already have them at some Greater Anglia stations. Great news if that is the case.

Yes, very similar style to Greater Anglia, full LCD, the screens will be able to display pictures in the event of disruption so customers can see the flooding or trees on line etc.
They will me a vast improvement.

 

[londonmidland]

Yes, very similar style to Greater Anglia, full LCD, the screens will be able to display pictures in the event of disruption so customers can see the flooding or trees on line etc.
They will me a vast improvement.

Is there a date the first installations will be happening, do you know?

 

[greaterwest]

Ah, I didn’t know that. Any idea of which manufacturer will be supplying the screens?

Almost certainly Infotec.

 

[DanNCL]

Darlington station has had this for a while now. TPE also seem to use it.

 

[800001]

Is there a date the first installations will be happening, do you know

Is there a date the first installations will be happening, do you know?

Last I knew was that it should be very very soon, but no, sorry, I don't know a date.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Seems far too complicated for casual travellers to understand.

 

[HSP 2]

Seems far too complicated for casual travellers to understand.

What the numbers on the platforms, had them on the main stations on the WCML for a number of years along with a diagram showing the location of the coach to match the platform numbers. Why they didn't just put the coach letters on the floor I don't know. Apart from using zones it can cover all of the sizes of train.

 

[ryan125hst]

Yes, very similar style to Greater Anglia, full LCD, the screens will be able to display pictures in the event of disruption so customers can see the flooding or trees on line etc.
They will me a vast improvement.

That's brilliant news, I'm looking forward to seeing them once they have been installed.

Does anyone know how long the current screens have been installed? I'm assuming they replaced CRT screens?

 

[sjm77]

Why they didn't just put the coach letters on the floor I don't know.

Because it will not work!

A 9 car Azuma is A-B-C-G-H-J-K-L-M
A 10 car Azuma is A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-K-M

Therefore in 4th coach position the sign on the floor would need to read 'D or G'. If somebody was looking for coach H it would be written on the floor twice, in 5th coach position and 8th coach position, where should they stand? Then don't forget XC and TPEx use the same platforms and they might be running A-B-C-xxx with A at the South End (the opposite way to LNER. The whole thing would become a total farce within the first few minutes!

 

[DanNCL]

Because it will not work!

A 9 car Azuma is A-B-C-G-H-J-K-L-M
A 10 car Azuma is A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-K-M

Therefore in 4th coach position the sign on the floor would need to read 'D or G'. If somebody was looking for coach H it would be written on the floor twice, in 5th coach position and 8th coach position, where should they stand? Then don't forget XC and TPEx use the same platforms and they might be running A-B-C-xxx with A at the South End (the opposite way to LNER. The whole thing would become a total farce within the first few minutes!

Add in the mark 4 sets formed 91-B-C-D-E-F-H-K-L-M-DVT at stations south of York and that makes signage specific to coach letters even more impractical.

 

[paulmch]

Ah, I didn’t know that. Any idea of which manufacturer will be supplying the screens?

I sincerely hope they aren't the ones that have been installed at Greater Anglia stations - they are utterly hopeless even during normal running, never mind at the slightest hint of service disruption!

 

[cosmo]

As part of a successful trial, York and Newcastle have received it, however as of yet, the announcing of zones is very limited for services. So it’ll just say the standard ‘First Class accommodation is at the front/rear of the train’ for the majority of services. It does announce train formations, however.

As an update to this, the last few times I've been to Newcastle, LNER's services at least now use the "zone" system in announcements too, ie "first class can be found in zones 1 to 3". I can't remember if this applies for non-LNER trains too, but I think I've heard it used for other TOCs?

 

[800001]

I sincerely hope they aren't the ones that have been installed at Greater Anglia stations - they are utterly hopeless even during normal running, never mind at the slightest hint of service disruption!

They are not the same as Greater Anglia, and will be a massive improvement with a lot clearer information.

 

[londonmidland]

They are not the same as Greater Anglia, and will be a massive improvement with a lot clearer information.

Is there anywhere on the rail network which currently uses these or are they a completely new design?

 

[greaterwest]

Is there anywhere on the rail network which currently uses these or are they a completely new design?

I'm betting they'll be Infotec TFT screens as seen here. https://www.infotec.co.uk/index.php?page=tft-display-overview

Probably something like the ones on the right found on the Thameslink network, if they're to show the platform zones:

 

[py_megapixel]

They are not the same as Greater Anglia, and will be a massive improvement with a lot clearer information.

Sounds good, as long as they don't cheap out.

At York, with the Infotec full-matrix boards, the information is presented quite nicely, but there are nowhere near enough of the physical screens. In my opinion they ideally need to be spread along the platform with one every 2-3 coach lengths or so, and they need to be doubled sided (or two screens mounted back to back). There also needs to be enough Special Notices screens that the departure screens don't need to blank out to show things.

Putting only a couple of boards on the platform and relying on the display in the ticket hall to provide most of the information - as is done at York - is no good if you expect people to choose where to stand on the platform based on the information - people will look at what zone they are supposed to be in, walk there, and discover that they no longer have any live running information where they are stood and so either walk back or wait for their train uncertain that they are in the right place.

 

[Taunton]

Numbers are surely inappropriate for sections along a platform as they will become confused with platform numbers. This is why all previous zone systems have used letters, colours, etc.

 

[Ianno87]

Numbers are surely inappropriate for sections along a platform as they will become confused with platform numbers. This is why all previous zone systems have used letters, colours, etc.

Letters could be confused with coach letters.

Colours could be deemed discriminatory against colour blindness (unless backed up by words).

As you only see the Zones once you're on the advertised platform, the potential for further confusion is probably quite small.

 

[tommy2215]

Numbers are surely inappropriate for sections along a platform as they will become confused with platform numbers. This is why all previous zone systems have used letters, colours, etc.

GWR and Avanti use numbers for their platform zones and people understand perfectly fine. And each painted zone number clearly has the word zone marked above it.