LNER to resume full pre-virus timetable from 14th February. Will other operators follow suit?

[Peter0124]

Admitting to a vested interest as I use, or rather used, the service regularly, the almost complete absence of direct trains between Scotland's largest city and England's second city, both via the WCML and the slower ECML, really is a total disgrace. If Avanti do not re-instate the Glasgow via West Midlands services they should, as an absolute minimum, add a call at Crewe to the Euston/Glasgow fasts every other hour (when there is no Edinburgh service).

As long as said Euston-Glasgow expresses don't revert to the ridiculous xx:10 start from Euston. Maybe they could make them xx:27 or something with the Crewe call added?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Also LNER is a very ‘Revenue positive’ operator, ie almost all LNER services bring in more cash than they cost to run, even now, in stark contrast to most other services.

What are LNER doing that the others aren't? Avanti WC should be in the same position albeit the 3TPH frequency always looked too much and surely a rewrite is now going to be required to return to 2TPH to Birmingham and Manchester.

LNER also used to benefit from reasonable level of international tourists which aren't around currently so makes it even more remarkable especially as Azumas ain't the cheapest fleet in the UK to lease.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

What are LNER doing that the others aren't? Avanti WC should be in the same position albeit the 3TPH frequency always looked too much and surely a rewrite is now going to be required to return to 2TPH to Birmingham and Manchester.

LNER also used to benefit from reasonable level of international tourists which aren't around currently so makes it even more remarkable especially as Azumas ain't the cheapest fleet in the UK to lease.

Considering Manchester is back to 3tph in the May timetable, and was in Dec too, I highly doubt will drop back to 2tph.

 

[JonathanH]

Considering Manchester is back to 3tph in the May timetable, and was in Dec too, I highly doubt will drop back to 2tph.

That is just facilitative though isn't it - 3tph timetabled which can still be cut back to (uneven) 2tph if it is felt that 3tph isn't needed nearer the time.

Proper 2tph (eg even 30 minute departures from Euston and Manchester) as envisaged by the previous poster would require a comprehensive timetable rewrite which hasn't yet been contemplated as it is a big call to make that 3tph would never been needed again.

There does seem to be quite a strong sentiment from some posters that LNER should run more services and Avanti fewer.

 

[Bald Rick]

What are LNER doing that the others aren't? Avanti WC should be in the same position albeit the 3TPH frequency always looked too much and surely a rewrite is now going to be required to return to 2TPH to Birmingham and Manchester.

LNER also used to benefit from reasonable level of international tourists which aren't around currently so makes it even more remarkable especially as Azumas ain't the cheapest fleet in the UK to lease.

ICEC has always been the most profitable of the profit centres / business units; certainly for the past 30 years, although ICWC has not been too far behind since WCRM finished.

Part of this is that on the ECML three of the four big long distance markets from London - York, Newcastle, and Edinburgh can all be served (quickly) by the same service. Whereas on the WCML the main markets need different services. As an aside, London - Edinburgh is a much bigger market than London - Glasgow, both in passenger numbers and yield.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

That is just facilitative though isn't it - 3tph timetabled which can still be cut back to (uneven) 2tph if it is felt that 3tph isn't needed nearer the time.

Proper 2tph (eg even 30 minute departures from Euston and Manchester) as envisaged by the previous poster would require a comprehensive timetable rewrite which hasn't yet been contemplated as it is a big call to make that 3tph would never been needed again.

There does seem to be quite a strong sentiment from some posters that LNER should run more services and Avanti fewer.

I'm sorry, but strong sentiment from some posters doesn't mean anything.

Plus, with May 22 the DfT want services to be cut from many operators timetables, but the fact that Avanti's has already gone downstream with 3tph to Manchester, would seem indicate its here to stay.

There is a Dec 22 rewrite coming up of the WCML, but I'm pretty sure that Manchester will not be recut back to 2tph, could be wrong though of course, but I would think the DfT would be unlikely to want the bad press of cutting a service group to 2tph after reinstating it to 3 tph the previous timetable. Plus, long distance services are the most profitable too.

 

[Starmill]

The binning of Eastern Leg means that the planned third train every two hours between London and Leeds may now never materialise, because it will be so difficult to add any more trains to the quantum while also supporting the phased journey time reductions. You get what you pay for. I do wonder how else capacity can be expanded for Wakefield and Leeds, it will take some careful consideration.

Manchester is quite unlikely to have it's third train cut permanently for capacity reasons, so the suggestion of moving to a half-hourly timetable is pretty much moot.

 

[philosopher]

I'm sorry, but strong sentiment from some posters doesn't mean anything.

Plus, with May 22 the DfT want services to be cut from many operators timetables, but the fact that Avanti's has already gone downstream with 3tph to Manchester, would seem indicate its here to stay.

There is a Dec 22 rewrite coming up of the WCML, but I'm pretty sure that Manchester will not be recut back to 2tph, could be wrong though of course, but I would think the DfT would be unlikely to want the bad press of cutting a service group to 2tph after reinstating it to 3 tph the previous timetable. Plus, long distance services are the most profitable too.

I am not too hopeful of Birmingham getting it’s three trains an hour to London back, at least off-peak as there is no sign in any it being reintroduced. I suspect the December 2022 timetable will end up a 30 minute frequency to Birmingham, perhaps with more trains being extended to Shrewsbury.

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect the December 2022 timetable will end up a 30 minute frequency to Birmingham, perhaps with more trains being extended to Shrewsbury.

I doubt there will be more trains to Shrewsbury. They will lose money, and Treasury is not in the mood to add more subsidy to the railway.

 

[The Planner]

I am not too hopeful of Birmingham getting it’s three trains an hour to London back, at least off-peak as there is no sign in any it being reintroduced. I suspect the December 2022 timetable will end up a 30 minute frequency to Birmingham, perhaps with more trains being extended to Shrewsbury.

No it doesn't.

 

[Bald Rick]

No it doesn't.

You tease!

 

[YorksLad12]

The binning of Eastern Leg means that the planned third train every two hours between London and Leeds may now never materialise, because it will be so difficult to add any more trains to the quantum while also supporting the phased journey time reductions. You get what you pay for. I do wonder how else capacity can be expanded for Wakefield and Leeds, it will take some careful consideration.

I have an idea, but I don't want to be put on the forum naughty step again for being speculative

On topicly, it will be good to see the full timetable resume. It's only about 15 years since Leeds-London went fully half-hourly, but you do notice the gaps at the moment.

 

[The Planner]

You tease!

If only you could see the mirth and hilarity ensuing from the development of Dec 22.

 

[Bald Rick]

If only you could see the mirth and hilarity ensuing from the development of Dec 22.

I can! Also the frustration and pain.

 

[jon0844]

You would think other TOCs would do the same and have a start date of 14 February - who knows there could be a joined up PR campaign - fall back in love with the railways!

I am sure they'd all love to make such announcements, but first of all they have to work out what they can and can't run at relatively short notice. I doubt any will dare commit until they come up with a robust timetable.

The current Saturday timetable for the week on GN is clearly no longer workable for the smaller stations served only by metro trains that are becoming crush loaded, but they can't afford to have loads of the extra peak trains cancelled. They've already been unable to run just two extra trains in the peaks for some or all of this week.