LNER's 5-car Azumas should be lengthened

[Ianigsy]

Moderator note: Split from

Wheelchair user unable to board Azuma in reverse configuration at Kings Cross

Doug Paulley, a disabled activist, has uploaded a video of his trilogy in attempting to board a train from Kings Cross to Leeds. The train had arrived in reverse direction from Bounds Depot and the platform the train arrived on did not have significant width to allow the wheelchair ramp to be...

www.railforums.co.uk

The 5 car Azumas are a flaming menace, and need sorting into proper length sets.

 

[danbarjon]

Maybe 7 cars like the 807s or something..

 

[Starmill]

Maybe 7 cars like the 807s or something..

7 would be under capacity for the current 9/10 car diagrams. You'd lose approximately 180 seats (more / less depending on first vs standard ratio).

 

[danbarjon]

7 would be under capacity for the current 9/10 car diagrams. You'd lose approximately 180 seats (more / less depending on first vs standard ratio).

Maybe extend to a 9 then.

 

[mangyiscute]

Dunno why they didn't just order entirely 9s
Do LNER serve any platforms where 9s don't fit and ADSO can't work, or do they have any services which need to be 10s that split into 2 5s?

 

[RobShipway]

Dunno why they didn't just order entirely 9s
Do LNER serve any platforms where 9s don't fit and ADSO can't work, or do they have any services which need to be 10s that split into 2 5s?

Not sure if it is the case, but if LNER where to resume services from places like Cleethorpes, then 5 car units would be all that could fit on the platforms there.

Would more than 5 cars be able to serve the services from Lincoln to London as an example?

 

[Starmill]

Dunno why they didn't just order entirely 9s
Do LNER serve any platforms where 9s don't fit and ADSO can't work, or do they have any services which need to be 10s that split into 2 5s?

They would be very unnecessary on the Lincoln services. They simply don't generate enough demand for nine cars, or fit there. That is solvable, but five fits and is adequate.

 

[TheBigD]

9 car azumas serve Lincoln every week. The 0730 ex Lincoln on a Saturday is booked a 9 car.

I believe the 1906 ex Kings Cross on Sundays from December may be a 9 car as well as it is listed as being lengthened on LNER'S websire.

 

[JonathanH]

9 car azumas serve Lincoln every week. The 0730 ex Lincoln on a Saturday is booked a 9 car.

Yes, but those services don't have to recess to sidings at Lincoln, which is apparently more the constraint on the other workings.

 

[deltic08]

Moderator note: Split from

Wheelchair user unable to board Azuma in reverse configuration at Kings Cross

Doug Paulley, a disabled activist, has uploaded a video of his trilogy in attempting to board a train from Kings Cross to Leeds. The train had arrived in reverse direction from Bounds Depot and the platform the train arrived on did not have significant width to allow the wheelchair ramp to be...

www.railforums.co.uk

The 5 car Azumas are a flaming menace, and need sorting into proper length sets.

I don't understand why the platform tapers so much that it is too narrow for a wheelchair ramp. How long are these ramps and how wide is the platform at this point?

 

[HSTEd]

Dunno why they didn't just order entirely 9s
Do LNER serve any platforms where 9s don't fit and ADSO can't work, or do they have any services which need to be 10s that split into 2 5s?

Its the latest in the long line of attempts to "fit train length to demand".
The problem is this mode of operation has so many inefficiencies that most of the time you'd be better off with fixed formation trains.

 

[30907]

I don't understand why the platform tapers so much that it is too narrow for a wheelchair ramp. How long are these ramps and how wide is the platform at this point?

It doesnt. There appears to have been an escalator in the way at that precise point.

 

[mangyiscute]

Yeah with the layout of King's Cross, you have an overbridge above the platforms leading from the cafe area which is at a level above the main concourse which you can take to reach the platforms from up there - imagine paddington's one except it doesn't serve the tube or anything so it is rather pointless. I am assuming that this escalator is coming down from there.

 

[Julia]

It's certainly not pointless - at busy times it's an important second route down to the platforms to avoid the scrum at the gates next to Leon (the much larger array across the front of the station invariably being exit-only).

 

[Trainbike46]

Personally, I think it should be considered to order sufficient extra units of the new CAF units for LNER, and then have the 5-car bimodes used by XC (on diagrams starting and ending at the same depots in Leeds, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh or Aberdeen as they are from now). LNER will have more 10-car trains for the busiest diagrams, and most 5s can be replaced with 9s. XC also gets an upgrade for some of their trains

 

[YorksLad12]

If LNER's Azumas went anywhere, surely it would be to GWR as a variation of the IEP contracts? If so, that could free up GWR's 802s to move to Lumo. Or Hull. Or one of Ian Yeowart's flights of fancy.

 

[Class 800]

Personally, I think it should be considered to order sufficient extra units of the new CAF units for LNER, and then have the 5-car bimodes used by XC (on diagrams starting and ending at the same depots in Leeds, York, Newcastle, Edinburgh or Aberdeen as they are from now). LNER will have more 10-car trains for the busiest diagrams, and most 5s can be replaced with 9s. XC also gets an upgrade for some of their trains

The only thing that irks me slightly about that is XC getting 5-car units!

 

[Trainbike46]

The only thing that irks me slightly about that is XC getting 5-car units!

They'd be much higher capacity than the current 5-cars at least, but yes that is the main disadvantage

 

[The Ham]

They'd be much higher capacity than the current 5-cars at least, but yes that is the main disadvantage

Indeed, circa 300 seats vs circa 260 seats.

Also it would depend on if they are replacing 22x's or working alongside them, as the latter would mean that you could replace a 4 coach 22x with a 5 coach 80x (+50% seating capacity) to then allow that 4 coach to pair with another 4 coach unit to run in stead of a 5 coach 22x (with the 5 coach back filling for the second 4 coach unit). That's 3 diagrams which have seen a capacity uplift for the cost of 1 extra unit.

 

[HSTEd]

The only thing that irks me slightly about that is XC getting 5-car units!

THey have rather more seats than a 200 seat 4-car Voyager!