Loco hauled passenger trains in France (WAS Loco hauled Intercity trains in France)

[AdamWW]

I know that SNCF are running proper loco hauled "intercity" trains albeit in a vile livery as "Ouigo Train Classique".
And there are of course loco hauled overnight trains.
But do they still have any "proper" local hauled Intercity day trains, or have they all gone over to something more modern now?

The internet tells me they're still running loco hauled trains but I don't know if that's out of date or not.

 

[Flying Snail]

Bordeaux - Marseille

Paris - Limoges - Tolouse

Paris - Clermont Ferrand

There are still a few holdouts of hauled TER still.

Toulouse - Nice is but due to be units once the new franchisee starts in June.

You can see the formation of trains for today/tomorrow on the (crap) SNCF app/website by searching for times and further clicking on a train for more details, unts have a nice picture, hauled sets just an outline of loco+carriages

 

[StephenHunter]

Paris Nord got rid of their hauled TERs last year.

 

[MarcVD]

And then there is the Ouigo Train Classique between Brussels and Paris which is made of SNCB I11 rolling stock and hauled all the way by an SNCB HLE18 loco.

At least the loco and the driving trailer are not in Ouigo livery. But more often than not, other cars are not in Ouigo livery either.

Here are 3 pictures of this train taken outside of its normal itinerary because of engineering works.

 

[AdamWW]

You can see the formation of trains for today/tomorrow on the (crap) SNCF app/website by searching for times and further clicking on a train for more details, unts have a nice picture, hauled sets just an outline of loco+carriages

Thanks.

I can - now.

Previously when I've clicked on the "journey details" link I've just got an error message.

 

[Starmill]

Paris Nord got rid of their hauled TERs last year.

To Amiens or something else?

 

[StephenHunter]

To Amiens or something else?

Yep, to Amiens. They had push-pull rakes with 15000s and 22000s using Corail stock.

 

[Flying Snail]

Paris Nord got rid of their hauled TERs last year.

Not quite, there is still the occasional hauled set but not with corail stock, using the fairly grubby double deck push-pull sets. When I was there last month there was a loco at the buffers as I was walking to my Eurostar. I have no idea what exactly is still left or what they run but just checking and the same train, 14.07 from Paris Nord - Creil tomorrow is showing as a loco set.

 

[Starmill]

Not quite, there is still the occasional hauled set but not with corail stock, using the fairly grubby double deck push-pull sets. When I was there last month there was a loco at the buffers as I was walking to my Eurostar. I have no idea what exactly is still left or what they run but just checking and the same train, 14.07 from Paris Nord - Creil tomorrow is showing as a loco set.

I was going to say I'm sure I've seen the Amiens service at peak times with the double deck sets.

 

[youngiecj]

Some bits round Strasbourg still?

 

[Starmill]

Strasbourg - Saint Die des Vosges at peak times and certain other workings on the route? I think with the diesels? And Corail hauled with electric locomotives on a handful of trains from Paris?

 

[Flying Snail]

Some bits round Strasbourg still?

Strasbourg - Basel is still corail push-pulls and will remain so for some years as there is currently no new TER stock capable of 200Kph


Some TER routes around the Grenoble area are also still corail sets.

 

[Gordon]

Just a warning that the title of the thread was 'Inter city'. The thread is digressing into 'all loco hauled services remaining in France'

 

[Flying Snail]

Just a warning that the title of the thread was 'Inter city'. The thread is digressing into 'all loco hauled services remaining in France'

Do you have any other Intercities to add to the thread?

 

[rvdborgt]

Services Lyon-Annecy and Geneva-Valence are also still (largely?) Corail push-pull.

 

[Gordon]

Do you have any other Intercities to add to the thread?

The problem is the definition of 'inter-city'

Did the OP mean 'express inter city services' or 'loco hauled trains that link two cities' ?

If the latter then there are still some Paris - Le Mans and Paris - Orleans clinging on. They (like some other services already mentioned) are 'TER' aka 'regional' so not 'by the book' intercity and not operated by SNCF 'Intercites'. BUT they do link two or more cities (eg Paris, Chartres, Le Mans and Orleans are all cities not towns.

Services Lyon-Annecy and Geneva-Valence are also still (largely?) Corail push-pull.

Geneve - Valence mostly NOT loco hauled now AFAIK.

However there is a large batch of locos and stock based at Chambery. Services radiate to Bourg St Maurice, Modane, Lyon, plus Annecy - Valence , Lyon - Dijon and the remaining Geneve - Grenoble/Valence that are loco

Do you have any other Intercities to add to the thread?

Strasbourg is a comparative hot bed of loco haulage, but not all are 'inter-city' as per may previous comment on the definition: TER200 corail 'Fluo' every 30 minutes at busy times all with 26000. All run Basel - Strasbourg, some extended to Nancy or Metz. There is also a couple of long distance TER along the old Paris - Nancy - Strasbourg line.

Strasbourg - Saint Die des Vosges at peak times and certain other workings on the route?

No very much peak flow only. Out of Strasbourg pm peak, back from St Die or Saales early am peak

My own 'money shot' from a visit last month required an 05.30 start from my hotel in Strasbourg, an early DMU up to Gresswiller, a bracing early morning walk along the line to grab this - the 07.05 departure from Gresswiller (the 06.01 St Die - Strasbourg). Incredibly the loco 67511 is still in original blue and sports only the spaghetti logo ( a logo which ceased to be the current SNCF logo 30 years ago...). Lovely sunrise light, cherry blossom and the drive put on the power just at the right moment!

 

[AdamWW]

The problem is the definition of 'inter-city'

Did the OP mean 'express inter city services' or 'loco hauled trains that link two cities' ?

I meant Intercités branded trains but I got the answer to that near the start and this is a most interesting and useful discussion so do carry on!

I've changed the thread title accordingly.

 

[signed]

Bordeaux - Marseille

Paris - Limoges - Tolouse

Paris - Clermont Ferrand

And those will stay being sets until 2028 at the minimum when CAF Oxygène units will replace all of them

 

[Gordon]

Just to add to the earlier comments on Strasbourg.

In addition to TER 200 and the peak 67400 diesel turns, there are:

BB22200 hauling and pushing the remaining RRR (Rame Reversibile Regional) three coach sets (ie two sets coupled = 6 cars). These were the bees knees for local services on introduction in the 1980s but now look dated and unkempt (and many covered in graffiti). RRR are light weight, so a BB22200 on (particularly) a single RRR set = lots of G force!
These run Selestat - Strasbourg - Mommenheim (some terminate here) - Saverne.

These and the 67400 trains are most definitely not inter - city!

Note also that for operational reasons (depot/sidings layouts at Strasbourg and Basel SBB) all locos on all the three types of train are on the north end of the coaches

 

[peteb]

Valence currently a good place to see loco hauled corail sets (TER), on the Lyon-Marseille and Valence-Annecy/Genève routes. At certain times of day two or three trains at Valence-Ville simultaneously. I quite like the SNCF app, as it does accurately predict loco haulage with greyed out train instead of unit pictogram. As has been stated earlier in the thread Lyon-Aix Les Bains and Lyon-Chambery rush hour services also loco hauled plus Lyon-Dijon two hourly.

Despite garish external livery Ouigo classique trains are pure un-refurbished 1980s/90s Corail stock (nicer in my opinion than the refurbished stock on Paris-Toulouse/Clermont Ferrand routes). Mostly open stock. Best routes for compartment stock if that's your thing are Nice-Marseille and Valence-Annecy/Genève.

Usually the only compartment stock on Lyon-Marseille is the driving trailer bike carriage, but it's never very full except weekends.