London Buses Discussion

[Edsmith]

TfL may have a say in its future IF they feel that it's too important strategically to be lost - it's the sort of garage location which is irreplaceable

It's nothing special, it was ideal for the 507 and 521 but whether it has a future now remains to be seen.

 

[Busaholic]

It's Go Ahead London's decision, if they don't need the premises anymore the electric charging equipment will be removed and it will be sold for redevelopment.

Go Ahead can obviously choose what they do but they have no influence whatever on what happens afterwards!

It's nothing special, it was ideal for the 507 and 521 but whether it has a future now remains to be seen.

You may think it's nothing special, but that certainly wasn't the message coming out of Go Ahead, London General or TfL in the lead-up and implementation. It was the harbinger of all things London Bus in the future, if you believed the 'spin.'

 

[317 forever]

Given the 507 & 521 are operated from the Waterloo depot with all Electric 12m BYD/ADL single decks and the depot is 'all electric' I would imagine (given the charging infrastructure installed at Waterloo) that they would look to base some Electric Double Decks there, it will be more difficult to find homes for the 12m single-decks - maybe they could move to another Go-Ahead subsidiary?

There is speculation that they will convert route 376, retained by GA upon retender, and route 108 to replace Citaros (ironically also ex-routes 507 & 521).

 

[Mikey C]

It's nothing special, it was ideal for the 507 and 521 but whether it has a future now remains to be seen.

Its location is special though, as a Central London bus garage. Once gone, there's no way of reinstating such a facility.

Which doesn't mean it will stay open, but it does mean it's a far more strategic facility than an bus depot on an outer London trading estate.

 

[Edsmith]

Its location is special though, as a Central London bus garage. Once gone, there's no way of reinstating such a facility.

Which doesn't mean it will stay open, but it does mean it's a far more strategic facility than an bus depot on an outer London trading estate.

It is possible that other routes will be moved in there.

 

[MotCO]

Its location is special though, as a Central London bus garage. Once gone, there's no way of reinstating such a facility.

Which doesn't mean it will stay open, but it does mean it's a far more strategic facility than an bus depot on an outer London trading estate.

But it is a small site with a PVR of 35 acording to londonbusroutes.net . It may not make economic sense to move routes in to it just to use it.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Go Ahead also run the 153 from Waterloo, and you could conceivably move the 100, 214 and 360 into the garage to make it viable. No idea if that's possible though.

 

[RogerOut]

But surely cutting services by 20 per cent , in central London is justified if passenger numbers have dropped?
It could be re -tweeked in future if numbers go back up? Sorry if I’m talking rubbish.

 

[317 forever]

Go Ahead also run the 153 from Waterloo, and you could conceivably move the 100, 214 and 360 into the garage to make it viable. No idea if that's possible though.

It is possible. It may depend on how easy it is to move the drivers' jobs, what other routes are won by Go-Ahead London and whether another garage closes.

 

[londonbridge]

Are Abelio still on strike this coming Saturday 17th? I’m sure I had an earlier TFL email saying some of the strikes had been cancelled but the latest one I’ve just received says they’re on?

Edit: found it, previous email said they were on strike 9th, 10th, 15th and 16th, latest one says 16th and 17th.

 

[Edsmith]

But surely cutting services by 20 per cent , in central London is justified if passenger numbers have dropped?
It could be re -tweeked in future if numbers go back up? Sorry if I’m talking rubbish.

Sounds perfectly sensible to me, bus usage has visibly dropped in Central London although some of it will undoubtedly down to the Elizabeth Line opening.

 

[Deerfold]

Sounds perfectly sensible to me, bus usage has visibly dropped in Central London although some of it will undoubtedly down to the Elizabeth Line opening.

Passenger numbers have dropped in Central London, but so have average bus speeds.

 

[Mikey C]

Ubers (and their ilk) taking passengers
Ubers clogging up the roads and slowing buses
TfL cycle schemes and removal of gyratory schemes, slowing down road traffic including buses...

 

[dan5324]

Ubers (and their ilk) taking passengers
Ubers clogging up the roads and slowing buses
TfL cycle schemes and removal of gyratory schemes, slowing down road traffic including buses...

Precisely this. A huge majority of it is TFL’s own doing.

 

[Snow1964]

Ubers (and their ilk) taking passengers
Ubers clogging up the roads and slowing buses
TfL cycle schemes and removal of gyratory schemes, slowing down road traffic including buses...

Yes TfL have left very little road space for buses, so they are much slower, but boroughs have also been involved.

You can add : removing filter lanes at traffic lights, so takes longer
blocking side turnings so other vehicles forced onto bus routes
removal of off carriageway delivery bays, so vans now block remaining routes
lots of no right and no left turns associated with cycle routes, so delivery vans, taxis etc can’t take shortest route and block up buses.
More multi-way (slow) traffic lights to replace gyratories.

In other London bus news :
route 264 has started to gain its electric buses this week
All the hydrogen buses are out of service (none have been used for few days)

 

[londonbridge]

I'm was waiting for the X26 to go meet my friend and drive to football. He wanted to set off earlier with the weather and condition of the roads. There were seven or eight others waiting, at least two indicated that they wanted the bus, but it shot straight past without stopping or slowing down! I sent TFL an angry tweet. Not happy!

Edit: just sent them an even angrier tweet as the next one has come past and done exactly the same!

I know there are strikes on but both buses can’t have been full!

 

[Snow1964]

route 264 has started to gain its electric buses this week
All the hydrogen buses are out of service (none have been used for few days)

It appears the electric conversion of 119 has also started

Regarding electric buses, at least one of Abellio’s additional batch of Caetano e-city gold for route 433 has been spotted, and some of RATPs new BYD-ADL buses for routes 226 and 295 are reported to been delivered (although none of these are yet in service).

There are lots of other new electric buses apparently in store around London because chargers aren’t ready. If you take route contract dates as the start date, all the following would have fully converted to electric during 2022
Abellio : routes 111, 322, 433
Arriva : route 307
Go Ahead : routes 80, 93, 119, 151, 154, 163, 164, 264, 353, 358
Metroline : routes 204, 297, 384,
RATP : route 295
Stagecoach : route 339
(not included 2023 contract start dates in above, that are due to convert)

 

[Edsmith]

I'm was waiting for the X26 to go meet my friend and drive to football. He wanted to set off earlier with the weather and condition of the roads. There were seven or eight others waiting, at least two indicated that they wanted the bus, but it shot straight past without stopping or slowing down! I sent TFL an angry tweet. Not happy!

Edit: just sent them an even angrier tweet as the next one has come past and done exactly the same!

I know there are strikes on but both buses can’t have been full!

Forgive me if this is a silly question, but were you at an X26 stop? It's a limited stop service. The only other thing is were they full up?

 

[londonbridge]

Yes I was at a stop it serves, Carshalton High Street to be precise. I couldn’t see how many people on board but since it starts from West Croydon and only does two stops before mine I can’t see both as having been full to capacity including standees.

 

[Simon75]

Do any of the newer buses still have roller blinds ,?

 

[Snow1964]

Do any of the newer buses still have roller blinds ,?

Don’t think so,

But electronic blinds still probably less than 10% of the fleet of about 8800 buses, as only started couple of years ago, and seem to be only 300-400 new buses each year since 2020

EDIT just checked TfL fleet audit
2020 were 316 new buses, 2021 were 334 new buses,

clearly those low numbers are not sustainable as 8800 / 325 buses per year would give average fleet age of 27 years.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/fleet-annual-audit-report-31-march-2022.pdf

 

[Edsmith]

Yes I was at a stop it serves, Carshalton High Street to be precise. I couldn’t see how many people on board but since it starts from West Croydon and only does two stops before mine I can’t see both as having been full to capacity including standees.

That is indeed a stopping point, I would certainly contact TfL about this.

 

[Mikey C]

To cover engineering work on the Bakerloo Line and Overground, 3 temporary bus routes have been introduced. The Diamond Geezer blog has tried them

London has three new bus routes - the 718, the 719 and the 720.
Proper bus routes, if temporary.

718: Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone
719: Queens Park to Wembley Park
720: Harrow-on-the-Hill to Watford Junction

diamond geezer

diamondgeezer.blogspot.com

 

[RJ]

I'm was waiting for the X26 to go meet my friend and drive to football. He wanted to set off earlier with the weather and condition of the roads. There were seven or eight others waiting, at least two indicated that they wanted the bus, but it shot straight past without stopping or slowing down! I sent TFL an angry tweet. Not happy!

Edit: just sent them an even angrier tweet as the next one has come past and done exactly the same!

I know there are strikes on but both buses can’t have been full!

It’s entirely possible the buses were full, loads have been exceptional where people have had to recalculate their journeys. The early morning X26s are often full and standing upon departure from Croydon, even on a weekend without the trains being down.

 

[Bourlea]

It’s entirely possible the buses were full, loads have been exceptional where people have had to recalculate their journeys. The early morning X26s are often full and standing upon departure from Croydon, even on a weekend without the trains being down.

Also if this was a bus strike day, the 407 route had a limited or no service therefore people may have used the X26 to get between West Croydon and Sutton.

 

[MotCO]

It’s entirely possible the buses were full, loads have been exceptional where people have had to recalculate their journeys. The early morning X26s are often full and standing upon departure from Croydon, even on a weekend without the trains being down.

If the buses had luggage racks fitted, and these were not being used, it may give the impression that the buses were empty.

 

[Snow1964]

Seems the 30 Wrightbus Electroliners for route 111 (Kingston-Heathrow) which is operated by Abellio are financed by Rock Road (a subsidiary of Rock Rail)

None have yet entered service, they are all stored (bit like Rock Rail financed class 701)

Finance provider Rock Road has entered the zero emission bus market, funding 30 Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliner battery electric double deckers for Abellio London’s route 111 between Heathrow Central and Kingston.

The agreement involves a consortium led by Rock and the Mayoral Energy Efficiency Fund, managed by Amber Infrastructure, while senior debt is provided by the Greater London Authority and NatWest.

Rock Road enters ZEB finance with Abellio

Finance provider Rock Road has entered the zero emission bus market, funding 30 Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliner battery electric double deckers for Abellio London’s route 111 between Heathrow Central and Kingston. The agreement involves a consortium led by Rock and the…

www.smmt.co.uk

 

[Mikey C]

Nasty incident this week where a 13 collided with an ambulance at the junction of Baker Street and the Marylebone Road

This is the disturbing moment an ambulance overturned after a crash with a double-decker bus on one of London’s most famous streets.
A video shared on TikTok shows paramedics clambering out of the upturned unit.
Medical equipment can be seen scattered across the pavement, along with debris and shattered glass from the collision.
The incident happened at around 11pm last night at the junction between Baker Street and Marylebone Road as the ambulance was responding to an emergency call.
Metropolitan Police rushed to the scene where a crowd had already gathered to help the emergency workers.
Meanwhile, passengers onboard the bus 13, heading to North Finchley, were said to be shaken but not injured.

Ambulance flips over after crash with double-decker bus in London's Baker Street

Two paramedics can be seen clambering out of the ambulance.

metro.co.uk

 

[James H]

At the TfL board meeting today it was mentioned that some electric buses on TfL routes had struggled to hold their charges in the recent low temperatures.

 

[Mikey C]

At the TfL board meeting today it was mentioned that some electric buses on TfL routes had struggled to hold their charges in the recent low temperatures.

Not a surprise, though you'd assume that battery buses elsewhere in Europe would face much lower winter temperatures?