London - Fort William advice / Buying a ticket without a reservation

[RobLawrence]

Hi there. I have a room only supplement to travel Euston to Fort William in the coming week, for me and my son (who is in the 5-15 age bracket). We shall make our way to Glasgow - probably the following day or early on Day 3. And then to back from Glasgow to London on day three. I am lucky enough to be travelling on an all lines ticket.

My query concerns my son's ticket - and reserving seats for our return journey: the Glasgow to Euston portion - a 5+ hour journey

On attempting to purchase (from Avanti WC or National Rail) an off peak child return (£96.40) the website/system tell me no tickets are available (presumably because the sleeper service is fully reserved - which of course includes accounting for my own room supplement!) This is surely not the case - this is an open ticket available for any journey. Both call centres seem to put their faith in the website being correct.

Additionally, I am struggling to find means to reserve seats on the Glasgow to London journey - partly due to the former reason - partly because we do not wish to have made a FW to Glasgow reservation.

Caledonian Sleeper were helpful in so far that they confirmed this was the right ticket and it should be sold to me. They suggested speaking to NR or Avanti WC. But neither seems to have the capacity to sell us the ticket I require.

What would forumites do? I am frustrated.

I imagine I could buy the EUS-FTW child off peak return from my local station ticket office (or will they give me the same "systems say no" advice as NR and Avanti? And it doesn't solve the problem of being unable to reserve the return.

All advice welcome.

 

[Haywain]

I am lucky enough to be travelling on an all lines ticket.

Is this an All Line Railrover?

I imagine I could buy the EUS-FTW child off peak return from my local station ticket office (or will they give me the same "systems say no" advice as NR and Avanti? And it doesn't solve the problem of being unable to reserve the return.

A station will happily sell you a ticket, and make the reservation for the return journey, which they can do separately from the ticket sale (unlike purchasing online).

 

[RobLawrence]

Is this an All Line Railrover?


A station will happily sell you a ticket, and make the reservation for the return journey, which they can do separately from the ticket sale (unlike purchasing online).

Thank you very much for the reply.

Yes, essentially an All Line Rover - valid on CS in seated or in a berth with a sleeper supplement.
I shall head to my local station and buy the return ticket and attempt to make a reservation. If I've left it too late for the reservation, then imagine being at the origin of the service - Glasgow Central - affords me a chance of boarding the unreserved (carriage C?)

[Also I should note the journey time is 4'40" not 5+ hours!]

 

[Haywain]

Yes, essentially an All Line Rover

Well, it either is or it isn't. I am trying to establish what you may or may not be entitled to and a vague answer is no help. The type of ticket you hold may affect whether you can obtain any discount on the child ticket.

 

[RobLawrence]

Well, it either is or it isn't. I am trying to establish what you may or may not be entitled to and a vague answer is no help. The type of ticket you hold may affect whether you can obtain any discount on the child ticket.

It isn't and I won't be entitled to a discount on the child ticket. But thanks for your helpful advice on my initial questions: I am going to get along to my nearest station to buy the ticket.

 

[Watershed]

The issue will be a lack of available reservations, combined with all of the fastest services being (falsely, in the case of daytrains) marked as "reservations compulsory" in the timetable data.

By forcing the use of alternative service that aren't marked as "reservations compulsory", or that have reservations available, you can still buy a ticket online. TrainsCanBeCheaper.info can be very useful in this respect, with its advanced options allowing you to force the itinerary to use or avoid certain routes or companies.

But you may find it easier to use a ticket office - or non-planner based ticket machine - as these should be able to sell a ticket without any itinerary being required.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

But you may find it easier to use a ticket office - or non-planner based ticket machine - as these should be able to sell a ticket without any itinerary being required.

Without hopefully dragging the thread off topic, which TVM's allow you to buy a ticket without any itinerary being required?

 

[Watershed]

Without hopefully dragging the thread off topic, which TVM's allow you to buy a ticket without any itinerary being required?

For now, essentially any TVM other than those operated by Chiltern, LNER, Northern and Avanti. But that does unfortunately mean there are quite a lot of stations that only have itinerary-based TVMs, which is problematic due to the recent trend of trains being falsely marked as reservations compulsory.

 

[RobLawrence]

The issue will be a lack of available reservations, combined with all of the fastest services being (falsely, in the case of daytrains) marked as "reservations compulsory" in the timetable data.

By forcing the use of alternative service that aren't marked as "reservations compulsory", or that have reservations available, you can still buy a ticket online. TrainsCanBeCheaper.info can be very useful in this respect, with its advanced options allowing you to force the itinerary to use or avoid certain routes or companies.

But you may find it easier to use a ticket office - or non-planner based ticket machine - as these should be able to sell a ticket without any itinerary being required.

That would explain it perfectly - thanks. Indeed Avanti WC themselves failed to explain why they were unable to sell the ticket!

Took a look at the website mentioned - but tbh am struggling how I might force the itinerary as suggested:

 

[RobLawrence]

Without hopefully dragging the thread off topic, which TVM's allow you to buy a ticket without any itinerary being required?

Good question -and hopefully the thread topic is tweaked to reflect this relevant aspect of the discussion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Without hopefully dragging the thread off topic, which TVM's allow you to buy a ticket without any itinerary being required?

Most of them. Avanti's awful ones don't, and I think LNER's don't either. LNR (WMT)'s don't do itineraries at all, while Chiltern and I believe Northern now allow you to choose a classic non planner interface.

 

[Watershed]

That would explain it perfectly - thanks. Indeed Avanti WC themselves failed to explain why they were unable to sell the ticket!

Took a look at the website mentioned - but tbh am struggling how I might force the itinerary as suggested:
View attachment 117558

I would suggest specifying avoid Avanti, TPE, LNER, Lumo and Grand Central, and via Wilmslow, Barrow-in-Furness and Dumfries. That should then result in a scenic theoretical itinerary involving changes at Crewe, Manchester Airport/Piccadilly/Oxford Road, Lancaster/Barrow and Carlisle.

It doesn't really matter what exact route or trains you're offered, the main thing is that this avoids trains that are marked as reservations compulsory and so the ticket can be sold even when Avanti et al have no seat reservations available.

 

[RobLawrence]

I would suggest specifying avoid Avanti, TPE, LNER, Lumo and Grand Central, and via Wilmslow, Barrow-in-Furness and Dumfries. That should then result in a scenic theoretical itinerary involving changes at Crewe, Manchester Airport/Piccadilly/Oxford Road, Lancaster/Barrow and Carlisle.

It doesn't really matter what exact route or trains you're offered, the main thing is that this avoids trains that are marked as reservations compulsory and so the ticket can be sold even when Avanti et al have no seat reservations available.

Thank you - I see! Pick a valid journey but one in which the TOCs don't demand reservations.
As luck would have it I was able to call into a local ticket office in the intervening hours. Although (nicely) bewildered by the request for the ticket - they happily sold me it - unlike their TVM which you rightly say insisted I could not buy the ticket in question because there were no reservations available.

Appreciate your help and that of everyone else on the thread.

 

[stuartl]

Thank you - I see! Pick a valid journey but one in which the TOCs don't demand reservations.
As luck would have it I was able to call into a local ticket office in the intervening hours. Although (nicely) bewildered by the request for the ticket - they happily sold me it - unlike their TVM which you rightly say insisted I could not buy the ticket in question because there were no reservations available.

Appreciate your help and that of everyone else on the thread.

Good job the ticket office hasn't been closed yet

 

[RobLawrence]

Good job the ticket office hasn't been closed yet

Precisely - something not lost on me. (Especially given that ticket office at the first station that I visited - having checked its opening hours - was closed without explanation).