London-France-Italy (Sicily)

[Jack in England]

We are planning 2 weeks in the middle of May 2023 and want to end up in Sicily and fly back form there.

But we just keep going around in circles trying to plan this, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

We have staff travel have plenty of time, a blank sheet and would like to do some kind of overnight train...etc

 

[Class172]

You could probably take inspiration from this challenge someone did last year: https://www.euronews.com/travel/202...-hours-this-intrepid-traveller-just-found-out

Ignoring the self-imposed time restrictions imposed on themselves, the route he took ended very near Sicily and I believe incorporated a sleeper from Rome to southern Italy.

 

[bspahh]

We are planning 2 weeks in the middle of May 2023 and want to end up in Sicily and fly back form there.

But we just keep going around in circles trying to plan this, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

We have staff travel have plenty of time, a blank sheet and would like to do some kind of overnight train...etc

I would start by looking at Seat61.com

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've done the overall UK-Sicily (Siracusa) run, but only by a disjointed set of day trains in different years.
There are no overnight trains Paris-Italy any more, only TGV or FR1000 daytime high speed services Paris-Modane-Milano.
There is a Milano-Sicily sleeper, and also a Torino-Salerno sleeper, both via Genova/Pisa.
Also a Roma-Sicily sleeper, as well as day intercity trains.
Sleepers are fine but you miss the scenery, which is particularly good south of Napoli.
I would find staging my way south over several days attractive, but you then have hotel costs.

I had no trouble booking Napoli-Sicily off-peak, but I believe the through trains can be difficult to book at any holiday period as they quickly fill up.
You might also find they are only bookable 4 months ahead, which might be why you can't do it yet for dates in May.
For the return journey I believe you can now reach Catania Airport on the local metro - the end of the runway is just over the fence from the main line to Siracusa.
I'd also leave a day to travel on the Circumetnea metre gauge line.

 

[rvdborgt]

I had no trouble booking Napoli-Sicily off-peak, but I believe the through trains can be difficult to book at any holiday period as they quickly fill up.
You might also find they are only bookable 4 months ahead, which might be why you can't do it yet for dates in May.

For the sleepers to Sicily, you're lucky if you can book them more than 2 months in advance, especially for the Milan-Sicily.

 

[Snow1964]

@Jack in England as you have indicated want to end up in Sicily but not said how you want to get there, don't rule out going via Germany, then over the Alps either via Brenner pass or even near Slovenian border. You can get Italian sleepers towards Bari and Lecce (often called Florence of South). Can then get regional train via Taranto to Reggio Calabria.

A lot will depend on if you want to stop, and enjoy places on route, would also recommend Lausanne, Switzerland (which is end of a TGV from Paris), then do a day trip for views through Swiss Alps to northern Italy.

 

[Ken H]

We did it some years ago. Warwick - Marylebone. Hotel in London. Early morning Waterloo -Lille Eurostar. Hour in Lille to nip to Carrefour for provisions. Then through TGV to Nice. Hotel.
Next morning, went to the station. Got italy runabout ticket validated then train to Genoa then Pisa and local to Firenze. 2 nights there. Side trip to Lucca. Then Eurostar to Napoli. 2 nights so we could do Pompeii. Rode the Circumvesuvia to Pompeii. Early morning train to Palermo. Few nights there with family then Ryanair back to Stanstead. Then a filthy train back to Brum.

All tickets sold to us by an agent. BUT he never warned us about the €10 compulsory reservation fee for each inter-city train.

Must have been 15 years ago.

 

[AlbertBeale]

When I did London-Siracusa a few years ago it was an easy two-change journey. I got an early London-Paris train, then Paris-Milan (arriving late afternoon). After a meal in Milan I got the direct Milan-Siracusa sleeper all the way (1000 miles or so). That sleeper runs down the south coast to the Sicily train ferry in the morning (nice scenery!), but by the time the train was shunted on and off the ferry [which I think is due to be speeded up with new rolling stock soon?] and reached Siracusa, it was mid afternoon. Obviously doing the whole Milan-Sicily journey on a regular (not HS) train adds to the actual travelling time; but if you otherwise need to overnight somewhere en route, the end-to-end time is fine.

The other option is to head further east from Paris/Brussels first, during the first day, and get a sleeper to central Italy from Germany/Switzerland. Then a HS train onwards to Sicily the next morning (though the actual HS lines give out well before Sicily I think!). But that means extra changes, a longer - and hence more expensive - way round, and little difference in end-to-end time, despite part of the Italy leg being HS.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I have done this twice in the '90's.
First time I flew to Palermo then came back by train, sleeper Catania to Alessandria on the then Siracusa/Palermo to Turin overnight train. From Alessandria I continued my travels within Italy and France.
The second time it was Eurostar to Paris for an overnight stop, then TGV to Turin and sleeper to Taormina for a holiday, returning also by sleeper to Turin thence on to Lyon for an overnight stop, then TGV to Lille and Eurostar (the TGV was late and we missed the connection at Lille but were accommodated on the following service from Brussels.

There is of course no longer an overnight Turin to Sicily service but the Milan one still runs. The coastal run through southern Italy is very scenic (as note in post 4) and back then it was the northbound timings which enabled this to be enjoyed whereas today this is probably the case in both directions, and there are of course the daytime Rome trains which provide more hours on this scenic stretch.

 

[Iskra]

There is also a Vienna-Rome sleeper, if you fancy that. Personally, I think you should try do the Southern Italy/Sicily section in daylight for the views and there are day IC trains that still go onto the ferry if that’s something you would like to do.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Italian HS network finishes at Salerno, though RFI has just begun procurement of new infrastructure beyond there (several years before any change).
Paris-Milano is classic lines between Lyon and Torino, and the SNCF TGVs don't use the HS line Torino-Milano (not equipped), but the TI FR1000s do.
Torino-Genova-Pisa-Rome-Salerno (sleeper) is entirely on classic lines, and they still send IC (Sicily) trains on the old coast line between Roma and Napoli (HS services use the new line inland).
There is a Roma-Salerno-Reggio di Calabria HS train, but it's no faster than the ICs south of Salerno.

 

[30907]

Not much to add, but I am planning a trip to Siciy in March so a coupe of thoughts:
1. the best sleepers to take are probably
-Amsterdam/Cologne- Innsbruck (or Vienna, also from Brussels and Paris) which covers the less scenic bits by night.
- Munich (or Vienna) to Rome if you want to head south quickly
- Munich to Genoa/La Spezia for some coastal scenery (newly extended route)
- Milan to Sicily (daylight from Salerno south), but only if you don't want to visit Rome or Tuscany.

 

[D6130]

There is of course no longer an overnight Turin to Sicily service

There is still a Torino-Reggio Calabria and vv overnight service, which stops at Villa San Giovanni for ferry connections to Sicily. Like most - if not all - of the long distance overnight trains, it is routed via the original single track line through Tropea, instead of the 1970s double track cut-off from Eccellente to Rosarno, which is used by the daytime IC trains.

 

[Merseysider]

Did this last year - sleeper down from Rome to Siracusa, very comfortable, even got free slippers, razor, shampoo, etc. Was a touch over £100 which I thought was excellent value. Fantastic ride quality and a good night’s sleep. That said, you’ll be woken up in Catania (if you aren’t already up) due to the amount of people on the platform / getting off.

Did the day train from Siracusa back up to Rome in 1st, no food or drink service but a clean carriage, comfortable seats and pretty big windows which provided a good view of the mountains, towns, rivers etc.

On the ferry section we were free to disembark and enjoy the lounge, cafe, stretch our legs or whatever on the ferry.

Would definitely recommend

 

[ricohallo]

If you decide to book the sleeper train from Milan/Rome to Sicily (or any Italian high speed train or night train), make sure to look at the public fares as well, as they may be cheaper than rail staff supplements. 2 years ago I was able to buy Palermo - Rome in a single use excelsior cabin with shower and toilet for 69,90 and Rome - Catania in a regular single use sleeper for 59,40 with a public super economy rate and a discount code from a Trenitalia promotion. So make sure to check the Italian Trenitalia homepage as well for current promotions, as these don't show up on the English version of the website! I used staff travel facilities for further Trenitalia journeys on Sicily.

 

[AnyFile]

@Jack in England as you have indicated want to end up in Sicily but not said how you want to get there, don't rule out going via Germany, then over the Alps either via Brenner pass or even near Slovenian border. You can get Italian sleepers towards Bari and Lecce (often called Florence of South). Can then get regional train via Taranto to Reggio Calabria.

Going from Taranto to Reggio Calabria will take you a quite long amount of time. (I can find some trips that take 6 or 8 hours passing through the North cost of Calabria). Using the line at the South coast of Calabria would be even slower. (there is one InterCity which takes a bit more than 6 hours, but if you are using regional trains it will take much more).

It is doable, but I would not suggest it if your main goal is to visit the Sicily.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The Italian HS network finishes at Salerno, though RFI has just begun procurement of new infrastructure beyond there (several years before any change).
Paris-Milano is classic lines between Lyon and Torino, and the SNCF TGVs don't use the HS line Torino-Milano (not equipped), but the TI FR1000s do.
Torino-Genova-Pisa-Rome-Salerno (sleeper) is entirely on classic lines, and they still send IC (Sicily) trains on the old coast line between Roma and Napoli (HS services use the new line inland).
There is a Roma-Salerno-Reggio di Calabria HS train, but it's no faster than the ICs south of Palermo.

Presumably, "south of Salerno"...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably, "south of Salerno"...

Indeed!
I can't blame auto-correct, as I got it right earlier in the sentence...
I had just read a piece in Railway Gazette about upgrades coming to the Palermo-Catania line in Sicily, and the name stuck.

 

[Iskra]

Going from Taranto to Reggio Calabria will take you a quite long amount of time. (I can find some trips that take 6 or 8 hours passing through the North cost of Calabria). Using the line at the South coast of Calabria would be even slower. (there is one InterCity which takes a bit more than 6 hours, but if you are using regional trains it will take much more).

It is doable, but I would not suggest it if your main goal is to visit the Sicily.

I’d say the classic Napoli-Sicily route is more scenic, but the advantage of the Ionian Coast route is the use of diesel locomotive hauled IC stock, which has some novelty about it.

 

[AlterEgo]

There is also a Vienna-Rome sleeper, if you fancy that. Personally, I think you should try do the Southern Italy/Sicily section in daylight for the views and there are day IC trains that still go onto the ferry if that’s something you would like to do.

The Milan to Palermo sleeper does this section in daylight and I thoroughly recommend it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I recently did this trip but with hotel stays via Zurich and Naples. Going via the Alps was definitely worth while as was stopping in Naples for a few days. Wish I'd spent time in Zurich and Milan rather than just dashing through

 

[AlbertBeale]

I recently did this trip but with hotel stays via Zurich and Naples. Going via the Alps was definitely worth while as was stopping in Naples for a few days. Wish I'd spent time in Zurich and Milan rather than just dashing through

I found Zurich to be more worth spending time in than I expected.

 

[MarcVD]

If you have plenty of time, travel via Zurich and the RhB via Tirano to Milano and beyond.