London Northwestern Class 730s

[Peter Sarf]

So, no problems in the south, but there will be problems for services terminating in Crewe, especially those which normally use bay Platform 7. This just hold 2x350, but will only be able to cater for 1x730.

Maybe those services could terminate a little further North ?. Manchester/Liverpool would be a nice alternative to Pendolinos. Just as likely that 5-cars will be left behind at say Northampton.

 

[Prestige15]

Whilst they are nice and bright, they're a pain for dazzling oncoming trains.

Your not wrong on that but im sure they would be capable enough to make as such that dosen't dazzle other drivers, like how most premium cars with bi xenon does

 

[city dweller]

West Midlands Trains has released a clip of the Class 730 testing

 

[Photohunter71]

Looks like a mashup of a 158 and 380

 

[RealTrains07]

Bombardier have started construction of the LNR 730s

Picture from the press release today:

 

[221101 Voyager]

Bombardier have started construction of the LNR 730s

Picture from the press release today:

Looks a bit better than the tango orange WMR ones!

suppose these will be about 2 years late or more into service.

 

[bnsf734]

Looks a bit better than the tango orange WMR ones!

suppose these will be about 2 years late or more into service.

On BBC Midlands Today this lunchtime they had a feature on both the WMT and LNR 730s and said that they are not expected into service before the end of next year.

 

[LOL The Irony]

On BBC Midlands Today this lunchtime they had a feature on both the WMT and LNR 730s and said that they are not expected into service before the end of next year.

They'll probably only start testing at the end of this year.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Here is the BBC news report for those not in the Midlands

 

[221101 Voyager]

Here is the BBC news report for those not in the Midlands

Thanks for this, it's good to see more details of the 730 finally starting to emerge.

 

[city dweller]

A youtuber has put together a video of testing in Velim

 

[Merle Haggard]

I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have, I know; but why is the test one in WMR livery? I thought that they were 350/2 replacements.
OK, the Walsall line could be WMR; but it's interworked with the Euston line. Hint; thread title...

 

[samuelmorris]

I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have, I know; but why is the test one in WMR livery? I thought that they were 350/2 replacements.
OK, the Walsall line could be WMR; but it's interworked with the Euston line. Hint; thread title...

The 3-car units are replacing 323s, not 350s.

 

[Domh245]

I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have, I know; but why is the test one in WMR livery? I thought that they were 350/2 replacements.
OK, the Walsall line could be WMR; but it's interworked with the Euston line. Hint; thread title...

There's different 730 variants - 3 car 730s for replacing 323s on Birmingham suburban duties, and the two 5 car fleets for LNWR commuter and fast services. There's a WMR 730 thread knocking around somewhere as well as this one

 

[Merle Haggard]

There's different 730 variants - 3 car 730s for replacing 323s on Birmingham suburban duties, and the two 5 car fleets for LNWR commuter and fast services. There's a WMR 730 thread knocking around somewhere as well as this one

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised (or forgotten) that.
One might jump to the conclusion that it's a 3 car being tested (from the livery) and, in further steps of 2 + 2 equalling at least 5, that these will be entering service before the 5 car ones. Extending speculation to possibly beyond the limit of elasticity this might mean the 323s (including the ones to be transferred from Northern) might be terminated before the 350/2s. If so, strange that the 323s have been refurbished recently, but the 350/s remain tatty. I am basing all this on the assumption (but have no knowledge) that acceptance of 3-car units can't simply be carried over to 5 cars without actual testing of the latter.
But I still wonder how siding capacity, driver and other resources will be available for acceptance of the London Northwestern fleet; presumably, it will have to be an overnight replacement of the 350/2s - 730s not (I think) being able to mult with 350s.
But I'm sure that there's clever people in WMT who have the solutions already planned, I'm just not bright enough to work it out

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 323s are going to Northern so the 319s can be scrapped (or converted to 769s or whatever).

 

[samuelmorris]

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised (or forgotten) that.
One might jump to the conclusion that it's a 3 car being tested (from the livery) and, in further steps of 2 + 2 equalling at least 5, that these will be entering service before the 5 car ones. Extending speculation to possibly beyond the limit of elasticity this might mean the 323s (including the ones to be transferred from Northern) might be terminated before the 350/2s. If so, strange that the 323s have been refurbished recently, but the 350/s remain tatty. I am basing all this on the assumption (but have no knowledge) that acceptance of 3-car units can't simply be carried over to 5 cars without actual testing of the latter.
But I still wonder how siding capacity, driver and other resources will be available for acceptance of the London Northwestern fleet; presumably, it will have to be an overnight replacement of the 350/2s - 730s not (I think) being able to mult with 350s.
But I'm sure that there's clever people in WMT who have the solutions already planned, I'm just not bright enough to work it out

The 323s have a future home, as much of a travesty as it is, the 350/2s currently don't (at least not that has formally been announced) other than some prototypes for the Flex program.

 

[Jamesrob637]

350 dash two will go somewhere as they'll only be 15 years old.

 

[samuelmorris]

350 dash two will go somewhere as they'll only be 15 years old.

You would think so, but no formal announcement has been made. With almost every TOC operating electrified routes already having ordered new stock, there aren't many places for them to go unless more of the network is electrified.

 

[Mordac]

I'd much rather they'd ordered less 730s and kept the 350/2s, as long as they reconfigured them to get rid of the 2+3 seating and made them like the rest of the fleet. Unfortunately it seems that some of the 730s will perpetuate that seating arrangement (not just the ones for the Cross City Line).

This might have not been down to Abellio tbh, I know the lease terms for the /2s were fairly onerous, and the ROSCO might not have wanted to play ball.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd much rather they'd ordered less 730s and kept the 350/2s, as long as they reconfigured them to get rid of the 2+3 seating and made them like the rest of the fleet. Unfortunately it seems that some of the 730s will perpetuate that seating arrangement (not just the ones for the Cross City Line).

This might have not been down to Abellio tbh, I know the lease terms for the /2s were fairly onerous, and the ROSCO might not have wanted to play ball.

It was down to the ROSCO - I seem to recall their bluff was called and they didn't offer a better price, so WMT ordered new instead.

 

[Domh245]

It was down to the ROSCO - I seem to recall their bluff was called and they didn't offer a better price, so WMT ordered new instead.

Amusingly it's doubly 'backfired' on them as they were initially hoping they'd hold onto the 323s as well (which was why Northern initially weren't able to secure long term leases on them) but WMT decided not to use either

 

[samuelmorris]

Amusingly it's doubly 'backfired' on them as they were initially hoping they'd hold onto the 323s as well (which was why Northern initially weren't able to secure long term leases on them) but WMT decided not to use either

Long-term, if ROSCOs even have a place in whatever manifestation of privatisation we're left with after the recent review, it'll have been for the best. Being called out for greed should make leases more competitive, which is realistically a win-win.

 

[Domh245]

Long-term, if ROSCOs even have a place in whatever manifestation of privatisation we're left with after the recent review, it'll have been for the best. Being called out for greed should make leases more competitive, which is realistically a win-win.

True. I think ROSCOs will be around for a while, I just can't see the appetite for entirely publicly purchased/owned rolling stock.

What it did really highlight was the lack of coherent strategy and folly of the 'competing ROSCOs' idea - if it'd been known way back when (/decided for them) that WMT would get new fleets for birmingham suburban and some WCML services, then Northern could have planned to take on both the released 323s and 350s and not needed to order the 331s for example. I can but hope that going forward this sort of strategy is put in place, even if for the near term it is "no new trains for anybody" given the current climate

 

[43096]

Amusingly it's doubly 'backfired' on them as they were initially hoping they'd hold onto the 323s as well (which was why Northern initially weren't able to secure long term leases on them) but WMT decided not to use either

Why is that “amusing”?

 

[Domh245]

Why is that “amusing”?

It's amusing in the same way that someone else getting egg on their face or receiving instant karma is amusing. A bit of pleasure at somebody else's misfortune, whilst safely insulated behind a screen. It's not belly laughing by any means, but when I first heard about it back at the time it did bring a slight schadenfreudic smile to my face

 

[Mikey C]

Long-term, if ROSCOs even have a place in whatever manifestation of privatisation we're left with after the recent review, it'll have been for the best. Being called out for greed should make leases more competitive, which is realistically a win-win.

Agreed.

If you are going to have some sort of free market when it comes to rolling stock, there has to be losers as well as winners. If ROSCOs are too greedy, and get stuck with trains, then tough. A free market shouldn't be a licence to print money, there needs to be an element of risk to justify the profit.

 

[Class 170101]

You would think so, but no formal announcement has been made. With almost every TOC operating electrified routes already having ordered new stock, there aren't many places for them to go unless more of the network is electrified.

You could re-plan some routes to use existing electrification more efficiently and re-deploy diesel trains. For example Dunbar to Edinburgh Waverley or Haymarket for Scotrail or Newcastle to Morpeth / Chathill for Northern.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised (or forgotten) that.
One might jump to the conclusion that it's a 3 car being tested (from the livery) and, in further steps of 2 + 2 equalling at least 5, that these will be entering service before the 5 car ones. Extending speculation to possibly beyond the limit of elasticity this might mean the 323s (including the ones to be transferred from Northern) might be terminated before the 350/2s. If so, strange that the 323s have been refurbished recently, but the 350/s remain tatty. I am basing all this on the assumption (but have no knowledge) that acceptance of 3-car units can't simply be carried over to 5 cars without actual testing of the latter.
But I still wonder how siding capacity, driver and other resources will be available for acceptance of the London Northwestern fleet; presumably, it will have to be an overnight replacement of the 350/2s - 730s not (I think) being able to mult with 350s.
But I'm sure that there's clever people in WMT who have the solutions already planned, I'm just not bright enough to work it out

The complication is the order for 730/1 and /2 which are all five car units. Not sure what the matrix is for WMR platform lengths but some of the Chase line platforms had to be lengthened from 3 cars to 4 cars for the diesel service (170+153) to be converted to class 350. Therefore (some of) the platforms will be too short for 5 car 730s unless SDO is authorized. I imagine new build Willenhall and Darlaston platforms will be at least 5 cars long.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The complication is the order for 730/1 and /2 which are all five car units. Not sure what the matrix is for WMR platform lengths but some of the Chase line platforms had to be lengthened from 3 cars to 4 cars for the diesel service (170+153) to be converted to class 350. Therefore (some of) the platforms will be too short for 5 car 730s unless SDO is authorized. I imagine new build Willenhall and Darlaston platforms will be at least 5 cars long.

As through services to Euston from past Brum are dead (a very good thing this is, too; they literally destroyed the timetable), they'll just use 350s or 3-car 730s.