London Northwestern removing First Class from May?

[Chiltern006]

That’s the one, thanks

 

[Bogallan]

As a guard on LNWR that does do ticket checks on all trains, I am delighted that First class has been removed. I took the matter up with a senior manager over a year ago - he said then it was being looked in to - so it’s a result. Much better for more seating available to all, and less confrontation for me asking pax to move. I find it strange that after I announce “Sit in First class only if you have a First class ticket” before a departure from Euston, you find Standard ticket holders in there. “Plenty of seats available at the “Country end” I say (firstly having checked there were) only to receive the retort, ”Pillock, Jobsworth” or more, less savoury titles.
The First Class offering was always poor with little to differentiate between it and Standard class. My stock phrase, to genuine First class pax holders who ask sometimes, “When will the trolley be round?” is, “You’re not asking for much are you? We only got electricity last week, it was gas lighting before that!”
Breaks the ice and there follows much merriment and mirth after that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I noticed yesterday that all antimacassars seem to have disappeared. As if it's already been given up on!

Assume they must have run out.

 

[Bogallan]

I noticed yesterday that all antimacassars seem to have disappeared. As if it's already been given up on!

Assume they must have run out.

I’ve noticed this too. My first train today from EUS to RUG was lacking them in both first class saloons. They look even more ordinary now.

 

[43096]

The inexorable race to the bottom continues. Everything has to be downgraded to that absolute minimum. Maximum prices for minimum quality is not a good offering.

 

[Deepgreen]

One wonders how long first class is going to last with any of the London commuter operators now. I can’t see it lasting much longer on GTR.

The interesting one would be SWR, as ditching it over there would likely upset the Petersfield, Haslemere, Alton (etc) lot.

Southern have never wanted it and have sulked about it ever since they were prevented from removing it many years ago.

I noticed yesterday that all antimacassars seem to have disappeared. As if it's already been given up on!

Assume they must have run out.

Reminds me of GWR!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The permanent 350s have first class engraved on the headrest.

 

[Liam L]

The permanent 350s have first class engraved on the headrest.

I'm sure at somepoint they will probably be replaced

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The inexorable race to the bottom continues. Everything has to be downgraded to that absolute minimum. Maximum prices for minimum quality is not a good offering.

On one hand I agree, on the other hand I do think if you want a higher quality experience that’s what Avanti’s there for. (Recent troubles and personal opinions of their rolling stock aside)

I noticed yesterday that all antimacassars seem to have disappeared. As if it's already been given up on!

Assume they must have run out.

I’ve noticed this too. My first train today from EUS to RUG was lacking them in both first class saloons. They look even more ordinary now.

Isn’t it just 350/2s with antimacs now? And 319s, I suppose.

 

[43096]

On one hand I agree, on the other hand I do think if you want a higher quality experience that’s what Avanti’s they’re for. (Recent troubles and personal opinions of their rolling stock aside)

What about the Trent Valley services where LNR is the only option? They have substantial journey times that should justify first class provision.

Interesting to note that SBB does provide first class on its S-bahn services. But that’s a well run railway.

 

[Intercity110]

On one hand I agree, on the other hand I do think if you want a higher quality experience that’s what Avanti’s there for. (Recent troubles and personal opinions of their rolling stock aside)

what about northampton and other places who don’t get an avanti service

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

what about northampton and other places who don’t get an avanti service

I tend to think a change shouldn’t be that bad for those who want it so much.

 

[185143]

what about northampton and other places who don’t get an avanti service

Northampton is served by Avanti.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Northampton is served by Avanti.

Yes but only very infrequently.

 

[185143]

Yes but only very infrequently.

True. But to say it "doesn't get an Avanti service" is incorrect.

Classic RailUK pedantry!

 

[Watershed]

I tend to think a change shouldn’t be that bad for those who want it so much.

Are you seriously suggesting that people from Northampton should extend their journey to change at Milton Keynes just to use first class?

Sometimes I feel like certain people on this forum live in a parallel universe. An ordinary person wouldn't even consider that in a million years.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are you seriously suggesting that people from Northampton should extend their journey to change at Milton Keynes just to use first class?

Sometimes I feel like certain people on this forum live in a parallel universe. An ordinary person wouldn't even consider that in a million years.

“An ordinary person” - lovely. Thanks for that Watershed.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Did Southern really want to lose First Class? I suppose that means there's no chance of catering trolleys returning.
Or buffets.
Or The Brighton Belle
Edit: Seems the smiley got lost

 

[43066]

Are you seriously suggesting that people from Northampton should extend their journey to change at Milton Keynes just to use first class?

Sometimes I feel like certain people on this forum live in a parallel universe. An ordinary person wouldn't even consider that in a million years.

This forum is completely unreflective of ordinary people, and especially ordinary rail passengers!

The inexorable race to the bottom continues. Everything has to be downgraded to that absolute minimum. Maximum prices for minimum quality is not a good offering.

Yet people complain about overcrowding, even more so with the current thinned out services. Hence the increasing tendency to remove first class.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Yet people complain about overcrowding, even more so with the current thinned out services. Hence the increasing tendency to remove first class.

To be fair, the first class section on a 350 is so small, I don't expect it to make much difference to overcrowding, especially if a service is short formed.

 

[43066]

To be fair, the first class section on a 350 is so small, I don't expect it to make much difference to overcrowding, especially if a service is short formed.

When trains are crush loaded, every little helps! Especially when trains are also short formed. In an ideal world they wouldn’t be of course but, with the DfT requiring service cuts, I can see problems with overcrowding getting worse before they get better.

Generally I’m in favour of giving people choice but, when demand on some commuter operators has dwindled to almost nothing (as Southeastern found post Covid), removing 1st does start to make sense.

 

[Liam L]

To be fair, the first class section on a 350 is so small, I don't expect it to make much difference to overcrowding, especially if a service is short formed.

24 seats in a first class section, 48 when sets are running in pairs, May be small number but will help a little.

 

[james_the_xv]

Little note at the bottom of the May 23 timetable I've just seen:

In response to changing customer demand, from Sunday 21 May 2023 we will be removing First Class on our services. Anyone holding a First Class ticket for travel dated 21 May or later – including season ticket holders, should visit a station ticket office or contact us to claim a refund. For more info, visit lnr.uk

After following the link, more detail is given:

First Class use has been in decline for some time. By making the whole of our trains available to everyone we are able to provide additional seats for our Standard Class passengers. The change means an extra 4.7 million seats will be available for everybody on London Northwestern Railway every year at a time when we continue to welcome more customers back to the railway.

I do commute 3-4 times a week from Coventry to MK, and the first class always seems at least 1/3 full even on less busy services (albeit unsure if everyone is holding a first class ticket!). I haven't seen this publicised anywhere else (so as well as probably getting a quiet seat in the declassified first class the first few weeks) what do we think? I know this will likely come down to the old 'first class vs standard class on commuter/regional trains' arguments but I always thought that having nearly an entire car of a 4 car 350 as first was a bit overkill. Do we think more regional operators will follow suit?

 

[RPI]

I think SWR need to do the same now too

 

[Starmill]

The reason is the same as it was on Southeastern, it's because there's less rolling stock to go around, so the operator can claim to be mitigating peak capacity loss by converting the small number of First Class seats to Standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason is the same as it was on Southeastern, it's because there's less rolling stock to go around, so the operator can claim to be mitigating peak capacity loss by converting the small number of First Class seats to Standard.

It isn't that small a number. If you add it up across a typical 8-car formation (almost all LNR services are now 8-car) you're talking very close to a whole vehicle, and in a 12-car it's more than one full vehicle. OK, some people were paying 1st and sitting there anyway, but off peak it was hardly any.

 

[AJDesiro]

As someone who travels on the Euston-Birmingham route regularly, it certainly seems to be full of "no goods" outside of peak hours, the lack of ticket checks over the last 7 or so years on WMT (and LM beforehand) have effectively turned first class into standard class for some people.

 

[james_the_xv]

As someone who travels on the Euston-Birmingham route regularly, it certainly seems to be full of "no goods" outside of peak hours

I'm sure some of them do it because they can, but I can't imagine the placement of the first class compartment helps on 350s being in the middle of one of centre 2 cars. I've seen a lot of people very reluctant to move more than 15ft from the door they boarded at to try and find a better location - kind of understandable if it's really busy and there's nowhere to move, but I've overheard more than a few conversations when in that part of the train off peak along the lines of "oh lets just sit in here it's close". Perhaps the amount of "no goods" or whatever would be reduced if it was in one of the end halves of a driving vehicle.

 

[Mag_seven]

The railway staff who seem to occupy most WMT Class 350 First Class into New St on weekday mornings won't be happy.

 

[AJDesiro]

I'm sure some of them do it because they can, but I can't imagine the placement of the first class compartment helps on 350s being in the middle of one of centre 2 cars. I've seen a lot of people very reluctant to move more than 15ft from the door they boarded at to try and find a better location - kind of understandable if it's really busy and there's nowhere to move, but I've overheard more than a few conversations when in that part of the train off peak along the lines of "oh lets just sit in here it's close". Perhaps the amount of "no goods" or whatever would be reduced if it was in one of the end halves of a driving vehicle.

I do wonder about that, I just avoid coach B where possible, with the lack of standard seating, it's often a much better idea to just sit in another carriage.