London Overground - advance tickets

[Shempz]

Hi all,

Does anyone know why London Overground do not sell advance tickets? My friend just went to Shepherd's Bush station to get us some train tickets from St Pancras to Leicester, and they said they don't sell advance tickets.

Are they the only TOC that don't/won't sell them?

 

[clagmonster]

Schedule 17 would appear to indicate that reservations are not available at Shepherds Bush, see http://www.atoc.org/download/clientfiles/files/RSPDocuments/SCHEDULE 17 (June 2015).pdf
There are some LO stations that do reservations, others don't. I would suggest going to Keeny O or Clapham Jn.

 

[Shempz]

Cheers clagmonster.

Its bad enough the Shep Bush machines not giving Gold Card discount (at least not the last time I tried to use them)...this just topped it off for me!

 

[maniacmartin]

Forget buying advances at Kensington Olympia. Even though they have the means, last time I tried there, they did not have the knowledge to work out how to sell me an Advance starting a different station.

Sadly London Overground's retail training appears to be very inwards looking and they are not very good at selling products relating to the wider National Rail network.

 

[34D]

Forget buying advances at Kensington Olympia. Even though they have the means, last time I tried there, they did not have the knowledge to work out how to sell me an Advance starting a different station.

Sadly London Overground's retail training appears to be very inwards looking and they are not very good at selling products relating to the wider National Rail network.

Considering it's a former intercity booking office, that is disappointing

 

[transmanche]

Sadly London Overground's retail training appears to be very inwards looking and they are not very good at selling products relating to the wider National Rail network.

I am minded to believe that LO don't really want to be part of the NR network (and if TfL could easily withdraw from the NR network it would).

Just look at the signage at Camden Road station:

Pre-LO, with NR signage only:


Camden Road Station by Kake, on Flickr


Temporary LO signage, with NR logo:


DSC00582 by Jian Kuang, on Flickr


Permanent LO signage, with no mention of NR at all:


Camden Road by John King, on Flickr

 

[hassaanhc]

I am minded to believe that LO don't really want to be part of the NR network (and if TfL could easily withdraw from the NR network it would).

Just look at the signage at Camden Road station:

Pre-LO, with NR signage only:


Camden Road Station by Kake, on Flickr


Temporary LO signage, with NR logo:


DSC00582 by Jian Kuang, on Flickr


Permanent LO signage, with no mention of NR at all:


Camden Road by John King, on Flickr

TfL are happy to take the credit when LO does well in National Rail TOC satisfaction surveys, but at other times they go to extremes to hide that. Or at least bending the truth to gain public support. Like emphasising how the 317 unreliability is due to being over 30 years old and not a lack of TLC, while keeping very quiet about the age of the 72ts and 73ts, and the immediate major structural work needed for the 72ts. The LUL network seems to be playing second fiddle to LO when it comes to funding. I'm not a fan of TfL at all, if not what I mentioned above then their very poor behaviour towards their employees, I mean what sort of organisation publically shames their staff and puts them at risk of assault? :roll:

 

[bicbasher]

Sadly it's easier to use a TOC site to buy the advance tickets and collect from a LOROL TVM than it is to buy from the ticket office.

I couldn't even get a LOROL clerk to sell me a CDR from Forest Hill to East Grinstead for the next day!

 

[Sleepy]

:roll: I am very surprised that no one has reported LO for failing to fulfil ticket retailing requirements !!
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Hi all,

Does anyone know why London Overground do not sell advance tickets? My friend just went to Shepherd's Bush station to get us some train tickets from St Pancras to Leicester, and they said they don't sell advance tickets.

Are they the only TOC that don't/won't sell them?

Merseyrail ?

 

[JaJaWa]

I am minded to believe that LO don't really want to be part of the NR network (and if TfL could easily withdraw from the NR network it would).

Just look at the signage at Camden Road station:

I am minded to believe that Network Rail don't really want to be part of the NR network (and if NR could easily withdraw from the NR network it would).

Just look at the signage at Leeds station:

Pre-NR, with Railtrack signage only:


Permanent NR signage, with no mention of NR at all:

 

[transmanche]

I am minded to believe that Network Rail don't really want to be part of the NR network (and if NR could easily withdraw from the NR network it would).

Just look at the signage at Leeds station:

Why, have they covered up the massive double arrow sign on the front of the station?


Leeds Train Station by goodadvice.com, on Flickr

 

[JaJaWa]

Why, have they covered up the massive double arrow sign on the front of the station?

You'd be hard-pressed to find one at St. Pancras or Stratford International.

But, in regards to London Overground's use of the BR/NR arrows; TfL originally put signs up for Thameslink / Connex on their services, which rather quickly had to be stuck over. A decision was made to simply brand all of these services as "National Rail" (Merseyrail signs them as "Mainline") and I think that putting a National Rail symbol as well as a Overground roundel on LO stations would confuse people that more services run from these stations than actually do.

 

[transmanche]

You'd be hard-pressed to find one at St. Pancras or Stratford International.

Ah well, you may not find the symbol at these L&CR-owned stations, but the phrase 'National Rail' is used liberally around the St Pancras station building:

But, in regards to London Overground's use of the BR/NR arrows; TfL originally put signs up for Thameslink / Connex on their services, which rather quickly had to be stuck over. A decision was made to simply brand all of these services as "National Rail" (Merseyrail signs them as "Mainline")

Sorry, what?

and I think that putting a National Rail symbol as well as a Overground roundel on LO stations would confuse people that more services run from these stations than actually do.

Why? Does putting a Merseyrail symbol and a National Rail symbol confuse people on Merseyside?

As I showed above, LO did put National Rail symbols at all of their stations. It was a simple branding decision to remove them.

 

[JaJaWa]

Sorry, what?

Train company names were originally placed on TfL signs until they decided to print "National Rail" instead to prevent them having to be continuously stuck over.

Why? Does putting a Merseyrail symbol and a National Rail symbol confuse people on Merseyside?

As I showed above, LO did put National Rail symbols at all of their stations. It was a simple branding decision to remove them.

TfL have removed the National Rail symbols at LO stations to prevent confusion, for example at Highbury & Islington there are signs in different directions for "National Rail" (currently Great Northern) and "Overground". If the Overground was marketed as part of National Rail, there would be confusion in which direction you should go.

This situation does not exist in Merseyside, as at Merseyrail stations, these services are signed as "Mainline" to differentiate them from the local Merseyrail services.

I am simply stating that I don't think we can take LO not showing National Rail symbols as a sign they don't want to be part of it.

 

[transmanche]

Train company names were originally placed on TfL signs until they decided to print "National Rail" instead to prevent them having to be continuously stuck over.

What I was querying was the relevance to the signs outside LO stations.

TfL have removed the National Rail symbols at LO stations to prevent confusion, for example at Highbury & Islington there are signs in different directions for "National Rail" (currently Great Northern) and "Overground". If the Overground was marketed as part of National Rail, there would be confusion in which direction you should go.

That's internal station signage, a different beast. And TfL managed perfectly well at Highbury & Islington and Moorgate for many years by using common sense when designing the internal signage.

I am simply stating that I don't think we can take LO not showing National Rail symbols as a sign they don't want to be part of it.

I think you've misunderstood. You'll have noted that the three photos of Camden Road signage were showing the evolution of external signs. Merseyrail will display these external totems showing both the Merseyrail and National Rail symbols. It shouts, this is a Merseyrail station and it's part of the National Rail network. LO deliberately don't do that.


DSC00043 by Antony Howard, Hoxton Overground station by Ben Sutherland, on Flickr

 

[JaJaWa]

What I was querying was the relevance to the signs outside LO stations.

That's internal station signage, a different beast. And TfL managed perfectly well at Highbury & Islington and Moorgate for many years by using common sense when designing the internal signage.

I think you've misunderstood. You'll have noted that the three photos of Camden Road signage were showing the evolution of external signs. Merseyrail will display these external totems showing both the Merseyrail and National Rail symbols. It shouts, this is a Merseyrail station and it's part of the National Rail network. LO deliberately don't do that.


DSC00043 by Antony Howard, Hoxton Overground station by Ben Sutherland, on Flickr

Yes, I have explained that TfL could no longer do this as the National Rail operator names change so frequently.

If TfL placed National Rail signs on the exterior of London Overground stations, then people (connecting both the station's exteriors and the interiors together) may expect to be able to follow signs to National Rail and arrive on a London Overground platform. Their strategy prevents this from happening. I explained already why this isn't an issue on Merseyrail, and this could be a possible solution if TfL were to rethink their signage.

 

[Starmill]

TfL have removed the National Rail symbols at LO stations to prevent confusion, for example at Highbury & Islington there are signs in different directions for "National Rail" (currently Great Northern) and "Overground". If the Overground was marketed as part of National Rail, there would be confusion in which direction you should go.

I think it's naive to suggest they do this for passenger information rather than brand power. A similar problem exists in Merseyside - 'Merseyrail' signage and the actual word under the 'M' is plastered all over stations managed and served exclusively by Northern.

 

[JaJaWa]

A similar problem exists in Merseyside - 'Merseyrail' signage and the actual word under the 'M' is plastered all over stations managed and served exclusively by Northern.

Don't get me started on that.

 

[Starmill]

I think you've misunderstood. You'll have noted that the three photos of Camden Road signage were showing the evolution of external signs. Merseyrail will display these external totems showing both the Merseyrail and National Rail symbols. It shouts, this is a Merseyrail station and it's part of the National Rail network. LO deliberately don't do that.

If you stand outside Hoxton and ask everyone where the nearest National Rail station is, I wonder how many people will say either Liverpool Street or they don't really know?

 

[transmanche]

Yes, I have explained that TfL could no longer do this as the National Rail operator names change so frequently.

GN Electrics wasn't an operator name. Other descriptive signs are used, such as 'Aylesbury Trains' rather than naming a TOC.

If TfL placed National Rail signs on the exterior of London Overground stations, then people (connecting both the station's exteriors and the interiors together) may expect to be able to follow signs to National Rail and arrive on a London Overground platform. Their strategy prevents this from happening.

Really? TfL Design Standards suggest otherwise; TfL places great weight on brand identity and want their brand to be pre-eminent. Simple as.

I explained already why this isn't an issue on Merseyrail

No you explained something completely different and irrelevant to why TfL don't want to use the NR logo to describe their services.

 

[Starmill]

Doesn't it say 'Trains to Stevenage' now? It also says 'Trains to Northampton' at Euston, and several other examples.
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If TfL placed National Rail signs on the exterior of London Overground stations, then people (connecting both the station's exteriors and the interiors together) may expect to be able to follow signs to National Rail and arrive on a London Overground platform. Their strategy prevents this from happening.

Except that it doesn't, because those things are not mutually exclusive! It is a construct by TfL to make people think that they are, and that is the only reason it was dropped.

 

[jon0844]

I never understood why Old Street says trains to Welwyn (which one?) and Moorgate says trains to Stevenage, of which there are relatively few.

 

[Clip]

I am minded to believe that Network Rail don't really want to be part of the NR network (and if NR could easily withdraw from the NR network it would).

Just look at the signage at Leeds station:

Pre-NR, with Railtrack signage only:


Permanent NR signage, with no mention of NR at all:

You mean apart from the bit that actually says Network rail in the corner of the banner then?

If you stand outside Hoxton and ask everyone where the nearest National Rail station is, I wonder how many people will say either Liverpool Street or they don't really know?

Most people don't actually as 'Where's the local National rail station' though. They ask 'where's the nearest train station'.

 

[jon0844]

I assume the photos are the wrong way around!

Most people don't actually as 'Where's the local National rail station' though. They ask 'where's the nearest train station'.

I've sometimes helped people by giving directions and saying it's an overground train, meaning National Rail, and then realised they might think LO. Now I'll try and save overland train, which they'll probably hear as Overground anyway.

I guess I could say National Rail or even British Rail to older people, or just 'train' but I feel it's actually helpful to give more info, just as I would likely say what tube line to take than just 'take the tube'.

 

[causton]

I assume the photos are the wrong way around!


I've sometimes helped people by giving directions and saying it's an overground train, meaning National Rail, and then realised they might think LO. Now I'll try and save overland train, which they'll probably hear as Overground anyway.

I guess I could say National Rail or even British Rail to older people, or just 'train' but I feel it's actually helpful to give more info, just as I would likely say what tube line to take than just 'take the tube'.

If people don't understand the TOC name I think 'mainline train' sometimes gets the message across i.e. 'fast mainline train to London takes 20 minutes, slow Overground train takes 50 minutes'!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's naive to suggest they do this for passenger information rather than brand power. A similar problem exists in Merseyside - 'Merseyrail' signage and the actual word under the 'M' is plastered all over stations managed and served exclusively by Northern.

Because Merseyrail is the brand name used by the PTE to describe the entire Merseyside rail network, some of it run by Merseyrail Electrics (2002) Ltd and some of it run by Northern. It is not incorrect usage, and it has existed way, way back to the early days, well before privatisation was an evil glint in anyone's eye.
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If you stand outside Hoxton and ask everyone where the nearest National Rail station is, I wonder how many people will say either Liverpool Street or they don't really know?

TBH the term "overground" has been used generically to describe "not the Tube" for years. I doubt anyone would even ask the question you specified, they'd probably ask for "overground station" or even (shudder) "train station".

 

[Clip]

I assume the photos are the wrong way around!

I've sometimes helped people by giving directions and saying it's an overground train, meaning National Rail, and then realised they might think LO. Now I'll try and save overland train, which they'll probably hear as Overground anyway.

I guess I could say National Rail or even British Rail to older people, or just 'train' but I feel it's actually helpful to give more info, just as I would likely say what tube line to take than just 'take the tube'.

Im unsure as to which photo is new and old to be honest!

The tube is slightly different as people in the main know which tube line they want to get somewhere so easy to direct them.

 

[JaJaWa]

Im unsure as to which photo is new and old to be honest!

The tube is slightly different as people in the main know which tube line they want to get somewhere so easy to direct them.

I was referring to the second (newer) sign not having the National Rail symbol. Interestingly Network Rail do seem to have gone back to the original Railtrack style of signage on their newest station refurbishments.

 

[Clip]

Ahh the double arrow job? It confused me as to what you were on about as you mentioned Network Rail then NR and I took it you meant Network rail.

Is there still a totem outside the station at all?

 

[cool110]

I was referring to the second (newer) sign not having the National Rail symbol. Interestingly Network Rail do seem to have gone back to the original Railtrack style of signage on their newest station refurbishments.

While a few years ago at Manchester Piccadilly they replaced the Railtrack symbol with the double arrow.