London Overground line names announced

[HullRailMan]

The Monarch is the Head of State... it about as political as you can get.

Calling this woke or left reveals faaar much more about you than any of the wibble you wrote.

The monarchy is politically neutral.

 

[Farigiraf]

- The line names can be quite obscure for non-Londoners, but I don't see why they can't just be familiarised with just as with the Piccadilly or Jubilee.

- The Suffragette (GOBLIN) and the Mildmay (NLL) seem almost identical from afar to the Trams and DLR respectively - could be quite confusing at Stratford but otherwise negligible

- Will the 378s and 710s be getting a new design? Could look quite good with the Mildmay colours but say the Lioness (Watford DC) would be hardly noticable

- Additionally, a map with the new colours has been released on Wikipedia. Not bad!

 

[midland1]

But Jubilee line or Victoria line doesn't tell you wear it is going either.
You look for the line name and the destination, so Lioness line to Watford Junction.

The Victoria line goes to Victoria.

 

[renegademaster]

Yet the last three 'new' lines have all been named after monarchs.

With much complaint against them. If they are fair game for criticism, so are the current round of namings.

 

[DjU]

No I think most people would be happy with useful geographical names. .

It's a good job we don't have Tube lines called nebulous things like Jubilee, Metropolitan, District then...

Or a Northern line covering huge swathes of South of London.

 

[Class 466]

Can't work out why but my colourblind eyes are really struggling with this half of the map when it was fine before - nothing seems to 'stand out' anymore

 

[DjU]

The monarchy is politically neutral.

You're in for a suprise if you read some history books...

 

[Tetchytyke]

With much complaint against them. If they are fair game for criticism, so are the current round of namings.

I don't recall many complaints from serious people about the Elizabeth Line (my only observation being it might have been better to not name it after a living monarch- but now she's not), and renaming the Fleet Line to the Jubilee Line appears to have had a broad consensus.

 

[kristiang85]

Can't work out why but my colourblind eyes are really struggling with this half of the map when it was fine before - nothing seems to 'stand out' anymore View attachment 152354

Yss this is my problem with it - I used to be able to know whether I was getting the overground or not at first glance, and when in stations walking at pace I know if I see a flash or orange on a sign I'd just go that way. Now it's a becoming a right mess.

 

[jon81uk]

The Victoria line goes to Victoria.

Not when I'm riding it between King's Cross and Walthamstow.

 

[renegademaster]

You're in for a suprise if you read some history books...

Get to the part about the civil war and the glorious revolution and then you'll see they got forced de facto to become non-political over 300 years ago

 

[Tetchytyke]

I generally find if you have to denigrate someone's reasoned opinion as 'wibble', then you don't really have a good counter argument...

Luckily I've asked you a specific question: what is controversial about the Windrush Line?

 

[HullRailMan]

You're in for a suprise if you read some history books...

So, please explain how our current constitutional monarchy is political? They are there by the grace of Parliament, we can easily remove them if we elect a parliament that wishes to do so.

 

[Horizon22]

They elected Boris twice, and the only vaguely political naming he did in his 8 years was "Elizabeth line" , which received plenty of backlash

Well he presented himself VERY differently to voters when he ran for Mayor (pro-EU for instance).

That doesn’t alter the fact that most MPs and councillors are Labour.

As for the Elizabeth line, if we were going down the same route as LO and there was a hypothetical confirming of Crossrail 2, it might be named “Crossrail: Elizabeth line”

 

[renegademaster]

Luckily I've asked you a specific question: what is controversial about the Windrush Line?

It implies one particular wave of migration to london has a special importance over all the others

Well he presented himself VERY differently to voters when he ran for Mayor (pro-EU for instance).

That doesn’t alter the fact that most MPs and councillors are Labour.

He was writing very right wing things in the spectator long before brexit. Both Churchill and Mosley were very Pro-EU so it's not really a decider of how right you are.

 

[DarloRich]

But you're the one claiming this, as "culture nonsense" fuels politics on the left too. Naming the lines this way is bound to be controversial, but becuase it's "left leaning" it's apparently OK. I firmly believe naming of public transport lines, especially in this febrile day and age, should be apolitical.

It doesnt fuel anything for me beyond humour at the total plot loss this has generated! These are names. They cant hurt you, they don't denigrate you or reduce your value as a person. Why do these names worry you so?

BTW everything in life is political.

Thus geographical names are the most useful and least controversial, or numbers or letters. That is also in line with London being a global city, and visitors should also be able to use names with ease too.

Could you give an example of "geographic" names that might be acceptable to you? PLEASE don't just use the usual spottery ones like GOBLIN.

Politics aside, this is part of the current depressing trend for everything to have a message/push an agenda. Why can’t things just be functional? Khan is an expert at this - see the NYE firework display. It would be far better to have named them geographically rather than after a cause.

what "cause" is being championed here?

The monarchy is politically neutral.

History books might disagree.............

 

[kristiang85]

Luckily I've asked you a specific question: what is controversial about the Windrush Line?

Sorry, I didn't see that post.

Nothing, that's probably one of the better ones, although the fact it doesn't stop at Brixton, the community most associated with the Windrush, again brings about confusion.

 

[Horizon22]

Not when I'm riding it between King's Cross and Walthamstow.

Clutching at straws there. The Hammersmith & City line doesn’t go to either of those places if you’re riding it between Royal Oak and Kings Cross. That doesn’t really matter.

 

[DarloRich]

It implies one particular wave of migration to london has a special importance over all the others

but surely it does FOR LONDON. Lets not forget many had served AND had a RIGHT to live here!

( The FOR LONDON is surely the point here)

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Victoria line goes to Victoria.

It also goes to Walthamstow, 10 miles the other way.

It's the same with all of the lines. The Central Line goes vaguely central, but it's also the most easterly and most northerly of all the underground lines. The Northern Line is the most southerly. The Hammersmith and City Line isn't the fastest way between Hammersmith and the City. The Circle Line is more shaped like a teacup.

Unless you call the Mildmay Line the "Stratford to Richmond or Clapham Junction via North London and Willesden Junction Line", a geographical name becomes just as meaningless as a non-geographical name.

 

[jon81uk]

Clutching at straws there. The Hammersmith & City line doesn’t go to either of those places if you’re riding it between Royal Oak and Kings Cross. That doesn’t really matter.

Exactly, it doesn't matter. The whole idea of naming lines geographically is pointless and provides no more or less information than a fixed name does.

 

[Horizon22]

It implies one particular wave of migration to london has a special importance over all the others


He was writing very right wing things in the spectator long before brexit. Both Churchill and Mosley were very Pro-EU so it's not really a decider of how right you are.

No and I know that but he positioned himself very differently to London voters in the Mayoral election. Lots of big ticket items - many of which ultimately failed - too. That’s a skill of his to provide a “chameleon” image. Bit off/topic now so I’ll leave it here.

 

[Smelliott]

I don't hate it, actually. I do think 'suffragette' is a bit too on the nose

Ha, exactly the phrase I used when I first saw the name of that line!

I like the idea of inclusivity, but the way it's been done feels cheap & tacky. Picking a prominent London born or based Suffragette would have been better (the Fawcett Line?), or even someone like Rosalind Franklin, Mary Seacole, Florence Nightingale, etc. I think the Lioness Line is my least favourite, and I've been to see England Women play several times. Feels very corporate and tokenistic somehow. The only one I like is the Windrush Line, it 'feels' right for some reason.

I suppose we should just be thankful we don't have the Amazon Prime North London Line, the East London Line brought to you by Starbucks coffee, etc.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So, please explain how our current constitutional monarchy is political?

Being a republican or a royalist are political opinions.

 

[DjU]

I generally find if you have to denigrate someone's reasoned opinion as 'wibble', then you don't really have a good counter argument...

Use of asinine phrases like 'woke' generally dont need counter argument, reason has generally fallen out the opinion by then...

 

[kristiang85]

It doesnt fuel anything for me beyond humour at the total plot loss this has generated! These are names. They cant hurt you, they don't denigrate you or reduce your value as a person. Why do these names worry you so?

I'm personally not that bothered; what does bother me is that those naming these knew that it would cause a bit of fuss, when really the sensible thing would have been to stay neutral. It's just double standards that annoy me.

Could you give an example of "geographic" names that might be acceptable to you? PLEASE don't just use the usual spottery ones like GOBLIN.

The original names suggested a few years back of Barking Line, East London Line, LEa Valley Line, North London, line, etc. would have been fine.
Or just O1, O2, O3, etc. (probably the most accessible for visitors, and can keep the OVerground 'branding' that everyone is used to).

BTW everything in life is political.

It really isn't, or at least it shouldn't be. Though the Twitterisation of the world is making that harder, personally - if I was in charge - I'd do my best to *avoid* making things look overly political.

 

[renegademaster]

.

I suppose we should just be thankful we don't have the Amazon Prime North London Line, the East London Line brought to you by Starbucks coffee, etc.

We have the "Samsung Circle to Search line " at the moment, and had "Burberry street"

 

[Tetchytyke]

Nothing, that's probably one of the better ones

So what's controversial about Mildmay Line (other than the fact it doesn't go right past the hospital)? The Weaver Line? Even the Suffragette Line, there's a memorial plaque to Emily Davidson in the Houses of Parliament- it's inside the cupboard she hid in on census day.

I'm genuinely trying to understand why people consider them to be controversial, because I don't understand.

Thinking the names to be lame, I do understand- I think the Lioness Line is a terrible name. But controversial?

 

[kristiang85]

Use of asinine phrases like 'woke' generally dont need counter argument, reason has generally fallen out the opinion by then...

Unless I missed it, nothing the quoted poster (@Revilo) wrote involved phrases like that though...

 

[Tetchytyke]

I suppose we should just be thankful we don't have the Amazon Prime North London Line, the East London Line brought to you by Starbucks coffee, etc.

I'm surprised we didn't go down that route, given TfL's money issues.

The Santander Line, the Westfield Line, the Red Bull Visa Cash App Line.