London Overground line names announced

[HullRailMan]

Being a republican or a royalist are political opinions.

But someone’s opinion of the monarch doesn’t alter how it functions. The institution is purposefully politically neutral, through a very long process of evolution, compared to a very political presidential system, for example.

 

[DjU]

It is you that is creating the polarisation but saying if you don't agree with X you must be Y. A common trait of the extremist left-wing I'm afraid;

Haha. The only ones creating polarisation are the people getting up in arms by a simple name. It gets a name and then loads of people find a flimsy excuse to get all angry at how that name is offensive to *them*.

 

[renegademaster]

Haha. The only ones creating polarisation are the people getting up in arms by a simple name. It gets a name and then loads of people find a flimsy excuse to get all angry at how that name is offensive to *them*.

Plenty of people got up in arms about "Elizabeth line". A thing you are going to find on a discussion forum is discussion

 

[The exile]

Yet I take it you have no problem with the Jubilee line, the Metropolitan line, the District line etc etc.

We’ve all grown up with (most of) them so are used to them, but that doesn’t change the fact that for all the lines that have branches, a single name is sub-optimal - the Northern in its current state probably being the worst, with the District not that far behind. I’d like to start a campaign for the “Wimbleware Line”….

 

[DjU]

Unless I missed it, nothing the quoted poster (@Revilo) wrote involved phrases like that though...

You might want to check again then... you missed it.

the names now proposed are exclusive. The woke left sees everything through identity labels

 

[kristiang85]

So what's controversial about Mildmay Line (other than the fact it doesn't go right past the hospital)? The Weaver Line? Even the Suffragette Line, there's a memorial plaque to Emily Davidson in the Houses of Parliament- it's inside the cupboard she hid in on census day.

I'm genuinely trying to understand why people consider them to be controversial, because I don't understand.

Thinking the names to be lame, I do understand- I think the Lioness Line is a terrible name. But controversial?

On the face of it, no. But given there are already 8 pages of discussion here, it is somewhat controversial isn't it? For better or worse. And predictably so. It really is shoe-horning stuff into peoples' consciousnesses, when all people want to do is catch a train, know where its going, and it being clean and on time. That's what people wcare about.

*Personally* I don't really care, apart from the logistics and costs of doing someone that I don't think many people really asked for (especially as TFL are constantly saying they are skint), but as someone who is in somewhat constant despair at the fractious divisions ever growing in our country, if I was a politician/committee in charge I'd do my best to try not to do unnecessary things that might stoke unsavoury comments from people.

 

[DjU]

Plenty of people got up in arms about "Elizabeth line". A thing you are going to find on a discussion forum is discussion

Yes they did. And now a few years on no one give a damn. Much like these names. Once the reactionaries have had their little strop, the world will keep on turning and these names will become part of the furniture.

 

[WelshBluebird]

But someone’s opinion of the monarch doesn’t alter how it functions. The institution is purposefully politically neutral, through a very long process of evolution, compared to a very political presidential system, for example.

But given the different political opinions on even having a monarchy, naming something after a monarch or something to do with the monarchy is a political act.

 

[DarloRich]

The original names suggested a few years back of Barking Line, East London Line, LEa Valley Line, North London, line, etc. would have been fine.
Or just O1, O2, O3, etc. (probably the most accessible for visitors, and can keep the OVerground 'branding' that everyone is used to).

they are quite dull though - we can do better than that, even with geographical names, cant we?

when really the sensible thing would have been to stay neutral

they seem fairly neutral to me! I don't see the controversy - honestly.

It really isn't, or at least it shouldn't be. Though the Twitterisation of the world is making that harder, personally - if I was in charge - I'd do my best to *avoid* making things look overly political.

We better agree to disagree then. Life is politics.

 

[renegademaster]

Yes they did. And now a few years on no one give a damn. Much like these names. Once the reactionaries have had their little strop, the world will keep on turning and these names will become part of the furniture.

Why are you going on a discussion forum if you clearly have some kind of problem with people discussing things. If you dont like dissenting views you can stick to reading only TfL press releases

 

[Tetchytyke]

apart from the logistics and costs of doing someone that I don't think many people really asked for

Splitting out the Overground network into separate routes has long been an aim, and the cost is the same whether it's the Samsung Line or the Suffragette Line.

I'd do my best to try not to do unnecessary things that might stoke unsavoury comments from people.

I'm honestly more interested why the Windrush Line or the Suffragette Line is stoking such comments. On the face of it, it seems to be something of an over-reaction on their part.

 

[Tester]

Agree!

Actually John Major would be an interesting choice, Brixton boy, poor childhood, clerical jobs, self study and improvement, rose through banking and then through politics to be the PM. I don't agree with his politics but he is a decent man. Affair aside obvs!

And what he did to the railway

 

[renegademaster]

And what he did to the railway

The suffragettes did some stuff to the railway too...

 

[kristiang85]

Splitting out the Overground network into separate routes has long been an aim, and the cost is the same whether it's the Samsung Line or the Suffragette Line.

Well, I'm guessing if it was the Samsung line, then Samsung would have been billed for it, not the London taxpayer/transport user...

But I'm pretty sure the renaming of the overground lines was well down the list of priorities of people who travel it regularly.

 

[JJmoogle]

We’ve all grown up with (most of) them so are used to them, but that doesn’t change the fact that for all the lines that have branches, a single name is sub-optimal - the Northern in its current state probably being the worst, with the District not that far behind. I’d like to start a campaign for the “Wimbleware Line”….

I don't mind for some of the more outlying branches(Met, Central and Piccadilly) but I agree.
I actually think having seen today it's a shame that more splitting didn't happen(wimbleware is certainly an obvious one, the DLR too) given the extent of re-printing, re-signing and re-recording that's going to have to happen anyway.

 

[DjU]

Why are you going on a discussion forum if you clearly have some kind of problem with people discussing things. If you dont like dissenting views you can stick to reading only TfL press releases

What a really really bizarre comment. I'm not sure you could come across, more immature if you tried... It seems your only perception of discussion with you is that it must be dissenting...

Infact you've quite literally told me if I don't agree you are right I should leave the discussion. Seems you are the ones that has the issue with the discussion board...

 

[reddragon]

I quite like the Lioness Line. The Watford DC lines have never really had a good name before and that names ties in with popular public opinion.

The Windrush Line is also quite well considered as it has a direct relationship to local history & people there today. No combination of East London / South London / Croydon Line would have worked.

I found the Weaver Line a bit odd at first, but the linkages of the area do make some sense. The Lee Valley Line cannot work really as only one of the routes are named as such already.

I love the Liberty Line, it has so many linkages to the area, Liberty of Havering as on the coat of arms, Royal Liberty School & the Liberty shopping centre. The name was chosen in 1964 due to naming disputes between Romford & Hornchurch DCs

I find then the names begin to drift a bit.

Yes the NLL passes through Mildmay Park, but that is it! It is and always was the North London Line. OK a clash with the non-geographically named Northern Line, but that one is a bit obscure.

I agree, nobody wants a line called the GOBLIN, but that name chosen is super obscure. I can imagine that the line with all its issues being known as the suffering line!

 

[renegademaster]

What a really really bizarre comment. I'm not sure you could come across, more immature if you tried... It seems your only perception of discussion with you is that it must be dissenting...

Infact you've quite literally told me if I don't agree you are right I should leave the discussion. Seems you are the ones that has the issue with the discussion board...

Your calling reasoned discussion a strop, rather than offering any serious counter arguments, and saying people shouldnt say anything because ultimately nothing we say he matters , but thats thr same for basically any thread here. Nobody will listen to us about a new platform at some other station.

Even if you think theirs nothing politcal about the names , i wouldnt call all the people suggesting a numerical s bahn system reactionaries having a strop.

 

[DjU]

Your calling reasoned discussion a strop.

I said reactionaries having a strop. Can you show me your reason discussion then?

 

[DarloRich]

but that name chosen is super obscure. I can imagine that the line with all its issues being known as the suffering line!

Are Suffragettes obscure? Is it that historical knowledge is poor?

 

[renegademaster]

I said reactionaries having a strop. Can you show me your reason discussion then?

You can choose not to read the thread, that is your choice. Theirs plenty of people not even discussing the political angle of the namings, like people advocating london overground have a numerical system like S bahn. Are they reactionaries having a strop?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

But it does go through Mildmay Park which once had a station of that name

People keep pointing this out as if it refutes the criticism, but TfL's own publicity states that the line is named after the hospital, not the obscure park that nobody from outside the immediate area has heard of.

The names chosen wouldn't be my choices, though I've no real objection to them (other than Suffragette Line which is a bit "on the nose" and a bit of a clunky mouthful- something like Pankhurst Line would be better IMO). However as none of the names have a geographical element (apart from arguably Lioness), they could have been allocated better. For example Liberty Line is a good name, but it's wasted on the obscure Rom-minster branch and the justification is tenuous at best. Mildmay should be one of the lines that actually runs near the hospital of the same name, and again bringing up the park is just a post-hoc rationalisation.

Also, it's good to know that wanting things to be geographically relevant makes one a "snowflake". That's quite the statement among a group as notoriously pedantic as railway nerds!

 

[birchesgreen]

The suffragettes did some stuff to the railway too...

Luckily Saunderton probably won't be on the Overground anytime soon.

 

[WelshBluebird]

*Personally* I don't really care, apart from the logistics and costs of doing someone that I don't think many people really asked for (especially as TFL are constantly saying they are skint),

Except plenty of people have asked for it and it's been in the works for a long time because of how confusing the massive orange blob was for tourists and visitors and those just less familiar with it. If it didn't need to be done why won't we just merge all the LU into one line too?

 

[12LDA28C]

Didn’t take long for the negativity to surface! The best reason for doing this is that during disruption you’ll know which bit is disrupted, but of course that won’t make any press release. In all my years working at Liverpool St the route via Brimsdown was called the Lea Valley, so suggesting that as a name for the overground bit would just confuse. The route via Seven Sisters was simply the Southbury loop.

How about simply saying between which locations is disrupted? This 'naming' of lines is pointless. Why is it necessary?

It was always going to be something like this under Khan. Boring names like ‘East London Line’ don’t give an opportunity to virtue signal

Indeed. No doubt he will have scored himself a few political points amongst certain sectors of the community which is the main thing.

 

[JJmoogle]

How about simply saying between which locations is disrupted? This 'naming' of lines is pointless. Why is it necessary?

How does that help you work out which line is disrupted if you just give a place, this is the current situation now and it's often a mess

 

[Sorcerer]

Aside from not being particularly fond of the names, I fail to see how these names will make it easier for passengers to work out where their train goes. I could've easily guessed that the Watford DC Line ran up to Watford, but I'd have had no idea where the Lioness Line would take me, and I find literally none of these lines helpful whatsoever and frankly I think they're all rubbish. Liberty Line in particular feels like an Americanism. At least the Underground lines had some degree of sense put into them. Line connecting Baker Street and Waterloo? Bakerloo. Line running in a circle? Circle. Line running through Central London? Central. Line running up to the north? Northern. The one connecting the area of Waterloo with the old city? Waterloo and City.

Obviously some names are less helpful than others but in general the names are natural evolutions of their nature (Metropolitan being from the Metropolitan Railway). I don't particularly care if the names are flashy or deep, I just want to know where it will take me. How will naming it the Windrush Line help someone who has no idea of history? How will calling it the Lioness Line help someone who has no interest in football? How will these new names help passengers any more than just giving them geographic names? Or to avoid confusion with the North London Line on the Overground and Northern Line on the Underground, how will using these new names help any better than just giving all of the Overground lines a number, letter or colour name designation? I know that I sound like I'm going on a tirade but I fail to see how these names will assist passengers.

 

[DjU]

But someone’s opinion of the monarch doesn’t alter how it functions. The institution is purposefully politically neutral, through a very long process of evolution, compared to a very political presidential system, for example.

No matter how neutral it is or how it functions, it *is* still a political position, in the political make up of our country. It is de facto political!
If we got rid of it we would need and alternative Head of State or alterations to the current political setup.

To try and claim as others have naming something after them is not political and then in the same breath try and claim Windrush is - is laughable.

People love to try and claim things that named after they don't agree with is 'politcal' - generally to deflect the real reasons they dont like it...

 

[renegademaster]

How does that help you work out which line is disrupted if you just give a place, this is the current situation now and it's often a mess

"The london overground is currently suspended between Sydenham and West Croydon. Customers for Crystal palace must find alternative travel arrangements"

 

[maniacmartin]

I do not like the new names. The lines already had names which TfL just needed to publicise more. Instead they’ve turned the naming into a political event.

The network is most easily to navigate when you can instinctively work out where a line goes based on its name, especially at busy stations with many destinations. “North London line” - ah it must go round the north of London. But who knows where Mildmay hospital is? Ironically it seems like TfL don’t.

I get that some of the existing tube lines have nongeographical names, but they’ve been around a long time. As we get more and more lines on the map, having more names to remember isn’t the best idea.

As to the colours, I think they should have made the centre of the Overgound hollow lines be orange, to denote the mode. The DLR could then have hollow lines with a pale turquoise central band.