London to Bath Split Ticket Validity during Engineering Work

[sk688]

As the title states, have a query regarding open returns that I have already purchased.

I wish to use the return portions of a London Paddington-Oldfield Park open return ticket on Sunday to return to Bath , but I have split at Didcot so I have Paddington-Didcot and Didcot-Oldfield Park tickets. This Sunday there is engineering work on the GWML between Didcot and Swindon, so Bath bound trains will run direct to Bath from Reading. If I wanted to travel on the Sunday , would I have to buy new tickets or would the original open return suffice?

 

[Watershed]

As the title states, have a query regarding open returns that I have already purchased.

I wish to use the return portions of a London Paddington-Oldfield Park open return ticket on Sunday to return to Bath , but I have split at Didcot so I have Paddington-Didcot and Didcot-Oldfield Park tickets. This Sunday there is engineering work on the GWML between Didcot and Swindon, so Bath bound trains will run direct to Bath from Reading. If I wanted to travel on the Sunday , would I have to buy new tickets or would the original open return suffice?

There are two bases on which this might be permitted with your current tickets.

Firstly, if the amended engineering work timetable had not yet been published when you bought your tickets, and stopping at Didcot would cause the journey to be extended by more than an hour compared to your original timings, you would be entitled to be re-routed at the earliest opportunity - i.e. permitted to travel on a direct train, notwithstanding the fact you would normally be required to go via, and stop at, Didcot.

Secondly, GWR might have published an easement, or unofficially permit this. I can't see evidence of any easement for split tickets, but you could ask their social media team, or a member of station staff, or the Train Manager on the platform before boarding. Essentially - ask around until you get the answer you want to hear!

If neither of these applies, unfortunately you will have to go via and stop at Didcot, even if that means taking a replacement bus. Of course you could get a refund on your tickets or obtain an overdistance excess on one of them.

 

[Benjwri]

Didcot-Oldfield Park tickets.

This ticket will cover you thanks to Easement 701043:

During engineering works, impacting journeys from Didcot Parkway via Swindon on the 701043 Map 07, 08 January 2023 and 04, 05 and 11 February 2023, customers will be able to travel
via Reading, Newbury and Westbury. This map easement will apply in both directions.

This permits you to travel on the trains via Reading on your Didcot ticket. There is no break of journey restriction therefore you can then end your journey short at Reading before starting your Didcot to Oldfield journey late at Reading.

I can't see evidence of any easement for split tickets

As the OP is still travelling from Didcot via Swindon on one ticket they should be covered correct?

 

[Watershed]

This ticket will cover you thanks to Easement 701043:

This permits you to travel on the trains via Reading on your Didcot ticket. There is no break of journey restriction therefore you can then end your journey short at Reading before starting your Didcot to Oldfield journey late at Reading.

As the OP is still travelling from Didcot via Swindon on one ticket they should be covered correct?

Ah yes, I missed that easement. In that case, it's fine.

 

[Birmingham]

Academically, you should be valid with Bath to Didcot and Reading to London tickets — but in practice that just looks like short ticketing and I wouldn’t think is actually worth it.

 

[Class800]

Academically, you should be valid with Bath to Didcot and Reading to London tickets — but in practice that just looks like short ticketing and I wouldn’t think is actually worth it.

Agree it looks odd

 

[yorkie]

Academically, you should be valid with Bath to Didcot and Reading to London tickets —

Yes, though I'd argue that if making use of an easement in text format, you would need to be doing what the easement says, so if an easement says "journeys from Didcot Parkway", if you were not making a journey from that station, you would potentially be on dodgy ground.

(It's perhaps a bit different when following an itinerary issued in conjunction with a ticket, insofar as you could rely on following the itinerary but also start and/or finish "short" unless there was anything stated a the time of issue to deny the right to do so; you wouldn't necessarily have any knowledge of an easement being applied, and wouldn't be exposed to the easement text).

but in practice that just looks like short ticketing and I wouldn’t think is actually worth it.

Very much agreed.

 

[Kilopylae]

Yes, though I'd argue that if making use of an easement in text format, you would need to be doing what the easement says, so if an easement says "journeys from Didcot Parkway", if you were not making a journey from that station, you would potentially be on dodgy ground.

Academically, I disagree. Easements form part of the procedure for determining permitted routes, so easements are applied to routes created using the Routeing Guide rules; this easement applies to routes passing through Didcot Parkway and Swindon, and adds permitted routes via Reading. I don't think the word "journeys" can restrict its application to passengers that are not starting short when the easements relate to routes.

but in practice that just looks like short ticketing and I wouldn’t think is actually worth it.

This part I do agree with, of course!

 

[yorkie]

Academically, I disagree. Easements form part of the procedure for determining permitted routes, so easements are applied to routes created using the Routeing Guide rules; this easement applies to routes passing through Didcot Parkway and Swindon, and adds permitted routes via Reading. I don't think the word "journeys" can restrict its application to passengers that are not starting short when the easements relate to routes.

From a journey planning perspective, yes I agree with you; the journey planner will simply apply the easement and the passenger can then follow the itinerary with all the protections that offers, and that includes starting or finishing 'short' except where explicitly stated that you can't.

But where you already have a ticket and are manually relying on a text easement, I wouldn't want to be in a position where I was going against the exact wording of the easement. It's down to interpretation, and given the stakes are quite high and certain legislation is so stacked against customers, it's not a position I would want to be in.

However if anyone is keen to put this to the test, then providing they are satisfied that they would have an appropriate level of knowledge of relevant laws (such as contract and consumer law) and/or access to legal advice/representation, then by all means go for it!

 

[mangyiscute]

When people travel with split tickets, do they usually show all of the tickets when they are checked or just the one for the portion that they are currently travelling on - I always do the latter, and then in this case I don't see how any evidence of short ticketing could be detected as at all stages of the journey you would be producing a valid ticket. And to be clear, I've never had an issue with a guard/train manager asking why I didn't get off at x station once it has been passed.

 

[Class800]

When people travel with split tickets, do they usually show all of the tickets when they are checked or just the one for the portion that they are currently travelling on - I always do the latter, and then in this case I don't see how any evidence of short ticketing could be detected as at all stages of the journey you would be producing a valid ticket. And to be clear, I've never had an issue with a guard/train manager asking why I didn't get off at x station once it has been passed.

All my tickets. Unless I have very good reason, or it's an e-ticket on my phone. I want to be helpful and have nothing to hide. This in turn often gets the best out of guards. Once I only showed the first one, and he looked a little surprised by it, and asked if I had any other tickets.

 

[Benjwri]

However if anyone is keen to put this to the test, then providing they are satisfied that they would have an appropriate level of knowledge of relevant laws (such as contract and consumer law) and/or access to legal advice/representation, then by all means go for it!

I actually have done this last time trains to Bath were diverted via Newbury. Had a Didcot to Bath ticket and decided I wanted to travel to London for a day out on the way home. Made the journey back on a Reading-Z1-6 TC, followed by a Didcot -Bath Spa ticket. TM was absolutely fine with it and said he thought it was allowed. I did check with him before boarding though.

If you do want the saving though and didn’t want to risk haste or being denied boarding, taking the service from London to Reading before the next Bath service and changing at Reading, which would likely be same platform and only a few minutes wait, would make it unenforceable.

 

[class68fan]

I actually have done this last time trains to Bath were diverted via Newbury. Had a Didcot to Bath ticket and decided I wanted to travel to London for a day out on the way home. Made the journey back on a Reading-Z1-6 TC, followed by a Didcot -Bath Spa ticket. TM was absolutely fine with it and said he thought it was allowed. I did check with him before boarding though.

If you do want the saving though and didn’t want to risk haste or being denied boarding, taking the service from London to Reading before the next Bath service and changing at Reading, which would likely be same platform and only a few minutes wait, would make it unenforceable.

No ticket valid from Reading - Didcot? Were ticket ok from Didcot to Bath to go Didcot - Reading - Bath.

My fiend had season London - Didcot but was told even on a threw trip London - Bristol a Didcot - Bristol no good diverted going Newbury.

 

[Benjwri]

No ticket valid from Reading - Didcot? Were ticket ok from Didcot to Bath to go Didcot - Reading - Bath.

My fiend had season London - Didcot but was told even on a threw trip London - Bristol a Didcot - Bristol no good diverted going Newbury.

If you read above it depends if there is an Easement. It is questionable whether you need a ticket from Didcot to Reading in this case, since you are normally entitled to break your journey, so could do so at Reading and start your journey to London, however whether this is allowed by the easement is debatable from the wording.

In this case I went up to the Train Manager and asked before boarding, explaining the situation and how I had bought the London-Reading leg later so it wasn’t a normal split, who said it was fine for me to do so. Therefore I was fine to take the train on those tickets as I had been given permission by a member of railway staff.

 

[sk688]

Thanks all , I will do the journey on Sunday and update as to whether I face any issues when travelling

 

[mangyiscute]

All my tickets. Unless I have very good reason, or it's an e-ticket on my phone. I want to be helpful and have nothing to hide. This in turn often gets the best out of guards. Once I only showed the first one, and he looked a little surprised by it, and asked if I had any other tickets.

IMO its always a lot easier to just show the one ticket and I've never been asked to show any more tickets. Nowadays, most people on split tickets probably dont even realise it since itll just all be on the trainline app for them

 

[sk688]

Update on this now that I made the journey.

Made the journey with no issues whatsoever , Bristol train left Paddington from Platform 1 and there were no ticket checks through the course of the service (which is pretty rare for GWR imo) , so had no hassle with it.