London to Cambridge off-peak return - Sat 8/Sun 9 July

[chrisp37]

We are travelling to Cambridge this Saturday, coming back Sunday. I don't really mind whether we travel to/from Liverpool Street or Kings X. When I go to buy the tickets (using the SWR app) it is quoting me the price of £44.70 (that's for two adults with a two together railcard, standard adult fare seems to be £33.90) for the outward bound portion of the journey on Greater Anglia from Liverpool Street and the return bound portion of the journey via either Thameslink or Great Northern to Kings X. There don't seem to be any direct services from Cambridge to Liverpool Street this Sunday. However, it describes the ticket as one which is valid on Greater Anglia services only, yet it suggests it is valid on Thameslink and Great Northern services from Cambridge to Kings X this Sunday.

Before I buy the ticket I want to be sure it is indeed valid on those return services and I won't come unstuck. Is the ticket being misdescribed in the app? Or is the app wrongly suggesting that the ticket is valid on services for which it is in fact not valid?

 

[HughT]

Can you tell us what sort of ticket it's offering. And what specific trains you're looking at?

Definitely no direct trains from Cambridge to Liverpool St on Sunday. And morning engineering works Cambridge to Royston (easily avoided, so long as you don't need to be back in London before midday).

Is it possible that the SWR app is giving you a restriction that applies only to the outbound leg of your journey? Is it selling you a return ticket or two singles? Without more info it's hard to be sure what's going on.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can you tell us what sort of ticket it's offering.

For the OP to confirm, but for a total of £44.70, it might just be 2 x £22.35 (SVR) Off Peak Returns (route "Greater Anglia only") from London Terminals to/from Cambridge, and both with 'Two Together Railcard' discount applied.

 

[chrisp37]

Yes, that's right. It's an off-peak return with "Greater Anglia only" specified as a restriction. The price for 2 adults with the railcard is £44.70 but when I change it to one adult no railcard it costs £33.90.

Perhaps it is a restriction that applies to the outbound portion only? It certainly doesn't make that clear on the app if so (at least not at the pre-purchase stage). I wasn't aware that return tickets existed where the restriction applied in one direction only. In any event, it's definitely offering an off-peak return, not two singles, with a "GA only" restriction, and suggesting I can use the return portion on either Thameslink or Great Northern services to Kings X on Sunday.

EDIT: If I look for tickets on the Greater Anglia website, it doesn't even offer this £44.70 fare. It suggests the cheapest option is two super-off peak singles in each direction: £19.50 on Sat from Liverpool Street to Cambridge and £27.10 on Sunday from Cambridge to Kings X. Those are the prices for 2 with the railcard. That comes to £46.60 so slightly more than this funny ticket that the SWR app is offering. Maybe that's my best bet as at least I know for sure it will be valid on the services I am aiming for. I am still very confused about this off-peak return that the SWR app is offering me, though.

 

[HughT]

This forum's own ticketing service matches the GA fares. Enough said! The SWR output looks like the result of a data or programming error.

 

[mangyiscute]

I just looked it up on the SWR app and i couldn't see the fare that op is suggesting, I was also getting the £46.60 total - I would go for this, as the other one while technically valid since your ticket is always valid on any itinerary provided by the planner, you will almost certainly be questioned by any staff who check.

 

[chrisp37]

Thanks, all. I'm not prepared to risk it for the sake of a couple of quid and will just buy the two sets of singles for £46.60.

Strange that this fare wasn't showing for you. I searched for London Terminals to Cambridge, return, 2 adults with two together, outbound Sat and returning this Sunday.

Out of interest, I did the same search in the GWR app (which I think must be designed by the same company because it is very similar), and I also get this £44.70 fare. However, on the GWR app next to each such fare (on the outbound leg only) it says "only [X] tickets left at this price". That's odd because that's usually the wording you get for an advance single. Still, if you click that and then select the return fare it shows the same ticket as in the SWR app, i.e. off-peak return, Greater Anglia only. On the SWR website, however, you don't get this strange fare.

All very odd but I am just going to assume it is some programming error and move on!

Here’s a screen shot by the way, if anyone is interested.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is the issue with the (TOC restricted) Off Peak Return fare, simply that not all services from London to/from Cambridge are necessarily operated by Greater Anglia?

 

[chrisp37]

But if you look at the above screenshots it shows a Greater Anglia outbound service coupled with a Thameslink return service with the restriction "valid only on Greater Anglia services", which I assume applies to both legs as it's an off-peak return, which just can't make sense! So it's basically trying to sell me a TOC restricted off-peak return but saying I can use it on a different TOC.

Anyway, the fact that this fare only seems to show in the SWR and GWR apps, but not on the Trainline, or on GA's website, or on the SWR website, probably suggests it is some odd (but incredibly unhelpful) error.

 

[Trainbike46]

Could it be a case of ticket acceptance or an easement, meaning the GA-only fare is valid on the GTR (thameslink great northern) trains as there are no services to Liverpool street on this occassion?


I checked BRfares because I was surprised you weren't using a super off-peak return, but it turns out those are only available as day returns
These are the fares available with a 2 together railcard: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=1072&dest=CBG&rlc=2TR&period=20230703

 

[MrJeeves]

The data for the ticket doesn't match the printed restriction.

It should say "Not valid to depart any location at any time on any TOC", but it's been entered as not valid before 0915 instead.

No doubt someone will read and fix this soon!

Edit: I actually looked at the day return, not period, but I assume a similar issue is at play.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[chrisp37]

Sorry, I am sure it's just me being slow, but does this mean that the ticket the SWR app is offering me *is* valid for that journey itinerary or should the app not be offering me that ticket?

EDIT: I also thought it could be some ticket acceptance issue, but I checked for the following weekend, when GA services *are* running on the Sunday, and the app still offers me this fare for the same itinerary.

 

[MikeWM]

Could it be a case of ticket acceptance or an easement, meaning the GA-only fare is valid on the GTR (thameslink great northern) trains as there are no services to Liverpool street on this occassion?

I doubt it, given that would mean everyone could then use these (significantly cheaper, because it is the 'slow' route) tickets for travel on the faster GN/TL route this weekend. Don't think that's ever happened before.

(And a happy 4000th post to me :-/ )

 

[MrJeeves]

Sorry, I am sure it's just me being slow, but does this mean that the ticket the SWR app is offering me *is* valid for that journey itinerary or should the app not be offering me that ticket?

EDIT: I also thought it could be some ticket acceptance issue, but I checked for the following weekend, when GA services *are* running on the Sunday, and the app still offers me this fare for the same itinerary.

It is offering a valid ticket for your journey from what it knows.

The SWR journey planner only knows what the data tells it, and, in this case, the machine data (what it actually uses to work out what tickets are valid for a journey) doesn't match what it should actually be.

You are entitled to use the ticket for the journey itinerary you have been issued, and, if you have any issues, simply presenting the itinerary you have been issued should be sufficient to allow you to travel trouble-free. I wouldn't suggest using the ticket on a train that is not listed on your itinerary.

The onus is on whoever sets that fare (probably SWR) to fix this issue.

 

[chrisp37]

It is offering a valid ticket for your journey from what it knows.

The SWR journey planner only knows what the data tells it, and, in this case, the machine data (what it actually uses to work out what tickets are valid for a journey) doesn't match what it should actually be.

You are entitled to use the ticket for the journey itinerary you have been issued, and, if you have any issues, simply presenting the itinerary you have been issued should be sufficient to allow you to travel trouble-free. I wouldn't suggest using the ticket on a train that is not listed on your itinerary.

The onus is on whoever sets that fare (probably SWR) to fix this issue.

Thanks. That is helpful. In the circumstances, given the difference in price between that apparently erroneous fare and two super off-peak singles, I will go with the latter for peace of mind.

I have noticed other odd issues with SWR ticket sales. For example, it tells me that there are no fares available for Worcester Park to Oxshott and some odd circuitous route for Oxshott to Worcester Park. There is a very obvious route available, changing at Wimbledon, which Trainline and other retailers say is a valid route. Yet if you wanted to buy a ticket for that route using SWR the only way of getting them to sell it to you is to buy Worcester Park to Wimbledon and Wimbledon to Oxshott as two separate journeys. That's getting slightly off topic, though.