London to Fishguard and Milford Haven services

[Aictos]

From what I have learnt and I'm open to being corrected, the Paddington services were HSTs and the Waterloo services were MUs?

However trying to confirm the actual calling patterns is difficult to say the least - with the Paddington services were they just extensions of Swansea services but then calling all stations to either Fishguard or Milford Haven?

I guess the stopping pattern is something similar to London Paddington - Reading - Swindon - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central - Swansea then...... after which I'm lost!

Can anyone confirm the stopping patterns please, just looking for a typical weekday that's all.

 

[30907]

The Fishguards stopped at most Llanelli Carmarthen and Whitland beyond Swansea, and at least at times ISTR the day train running nonstop Cardiff to Llanelli (by one or other route). Was there ever a Milford Haven HST?

 

[InterCity:125]

Was there ever a Milford Haven HST?

I don’t think so but there has been a hst to Milford haven (Railtour)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/16685713921

 

[Aictos]

I don’t think so but there has been a hst to Milford haven (Railtour)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/16685713921

According to Wikipedia, HST operated services between London and Milford Haven ran until July 1994 calling at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Cardiff Central, Swansea, Whitland and Haverfordwest however I'm not sure if it stopped at just these stops or all stations from Swansea?

 

[30907]

According to Wikipedia, HST operated services between London and Milford Haven ran until July 1994 calling at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Cardiff Central, Swansea, Whitland and Haverfordwest however I'm not sure if it stopped at just these stops or all stations from Swansea?

Found my 1987 timetable - amazing what one forgets!
0545 Swansea-Milford, 0740 Milford-Padd, all stations to Carmarthen then Llanelli. (except Johnston outward) Also 0608 Haverfordwest (formed ECS), called Whitland, Carmarthen, Llanelli, Swansea.
In that year the night Fishguards called as in my previous post, the day trains were Cardiff, Llanelli, Fishguard only.

 

[Aictos]

Found my 1987 timetable - amazing what one forgets!
0545 Swansea-Milford, 0740 Milford-Padd, all stations to Carmarthen then Llanelli. (except Johnston outward) Also 0608 Haverfordwest (formed ECS), called Whitland, Carmarthen, Llanelli, Swansea.
In that year the night Fishguards called as in my previous post, the day trains were Cardiff, Llanelli, Fishguard only.

Just so I understand, the 0740 ran non stop from Llanelli to London then?

Also the day Fishguards ran non stop between Cardiff and London?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I did the daytime Fishguard as an out and back once; while I can't remember if it was non-stop Paddington - Cardiff ( I don't think it was; I think it did call at Reading and Bristol parkway at least ) it certainly did not call at Swansea - or Carmarthen as we did not reverse anywhere. Just looked in my atlas and I do have both avoiding chords marked as "done", and the Fishguard trip would have been the only time I could have done that.

 

[Aictos]

I did the daytime Fishguard as an out and back once; while I can't remember if it was non-stop Paddington - Cardiff ( I don't think it was; I think it did call at Reading and Bristol parkway at least ) it certainly did not call at Swansea - or Carmarthen as we did not reverse anywhere. Just looked in my atlas and I do have both avoiding chords marked as "done", and the Fishguard trip would have been the only time I could have done that.

I've had a look in my Summer 1990 GBTT and it has a 1730 departure from London Paddington BUT it also seems that the train has different portions for Milford Haven and Pembroke Dock on Fridays only as it gets to Carmarthen at 2107 then arrives at Milford Haven at 2211 and Pembroke Dock at 2234.

I can see that during this timetable period, I can't see any London to Fishguard services during the weekday but I can see a Saturday service, was this like the existing Summer Saturdays that FGW and now GWR run to Pembroke Dock every summer?

Was that Fishguard Harbour service a Saturday you did?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, a Saturday - and it was a morning departure from Paddington. Can't remember the time but around 08.00 or 09.00 or something I think.

Probably late 1980s.

 

[30907]

Just so I understand, the 0740 ran non stop from Llanelli to London then?

Also the day Fishguards ran non stop between Cardiff and London?

No, you had already listed them AND quoted Wikipedia. Normal stops East of Swansea/Cardiff respectively, which increased over the years.
Your 1990 GBTT will give you a steer - though if it shows a through train to Milford AND Pembroke from Padd that's a typo, check table 128!

 

[SC43090]

Found my 1987 timetable - amazing what one forgets!
0545 Swansea-Milford, 0740 Milford-Padd, all stations to Carmarthen then Llanelli. (except Johnston outward) Also 0608 Haverfordwest (formed ECS), called Whitland, Carmarthen, Llanelli, Swansea.
In that year the night Fishguards called as in my previous post, the day trains were Cardiff, Llanelli, Fishguard only.

On Saturday 27th September 1986 I had HSTs on the following services

0930 Paddington Fishguard Harbour 43128 43185 from Paddington to Fishguard Harbour then did the RTN service from Fishguard at 1412pm as far as Llanelli.... Later on in the day i travelled on the 1720 Paddington Milford Haven from Whitland to Milford Haven power cars was 43036 43181 RTN on 2210 Milford Haven Swansea travelled as far as Carmarthen.... From Carmarthen i travelled on 2315 Swansea Fishguard dep Carmarthen at 0013am on the Sunday morning power cars was 43186 43011 on the RTN 0150 Fisguard Harbour Paddington as far as Reading........

On Saturday 3rd October 1987 i travelled on or observed the following HSTs services

0545 Swansea Milford Haven 43032 43017 travelled Swansea to Whitland
0615 Swansea Pembroke Docks 43035 43010 travelled Whitland to Pembroke Docks
0825 Pembroke Docks to Paddington 43010 43035 travelled Pembroke Docks Kidwelly
0935 Paddington Pembroke Docks 43140 43185 travelled Llanelli Tenby
1517 Pembroke Docks Swansea 43185 43140 travelled Penally to Swansea
0930 Paddington Fishguard Harbour 43130 43128 observed

Tuesday May 12th 1988 observed the following

0150 Fishguard Harbour Paddington 43126 43028
0545 Swansea Milford Haven 43020 43169

Thursday 19th May / Friday 20th May 1988 travelled on the following
2315 Swansea Fishguard Harbour 43177 43175 RTN on 0150 Fishguard Harbour Paddington travelled to Paddington

Saturday 1st October 1988 travelled on the following
1700 Paddington Milford Haven was booked to terminate at Whitland 43145 43131 for replacement coach service to Milford Haven coach was supplied by Silcox Coaches LDE 164P Leyland Leopard RTN on 2145 Milford Haven Swansea as far as Whitland for the HST forward as 2218 dep from Whitland to Swansea...... 2315 Swansea Fishguard Harbour RTN on 0150 Fishguard Harbour Padddington on 02/10/88 43146 43171

Sunday 2nd October 1988
0900 Paddington Fishguard Harbour 43134 43140

SC43090

 

[krus_aragon]

According to Wikipedia, HST operated services between London and Milford Haven ran until July 1994 calling at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Cardiff Central, Swansea, Whitland and Haverfordwest however I'm not sure if it stopped at just these stops or all stations from Swansea?

My Winter 1993/94 timetable shows one InterCity/InterCity Shuttle service a day between Paddington and Milford Haven:
Paddington 1730, Reading 1755, Swindon 1824, Bristol Parkway 1851, Newport 1914, Cardiff 1930, Bridgend 1950, Port Talbot 2001, Neath 2009, Swanswa 2019-2026, Llanelli 2042, Pembrey & Burry Port 2048, Carmarthen 2108-2115, Whitland 2131, Haverfordwest 2153, Milford Haven 2215 (ICS M-F, IC Sa)

Milforn Haven 0642, Haverfordwest 0659, Whitland 0719, Carmarthen 0736-0743, Pembrey & Burry Port 0800, Llanelli 0807, Swansea 0824-0832, Neath 0843, Port Talbot 0850, Bridgend 0902, Cardiff 0922, Newport 0948 (Sa,BHO), Bristol Parkway 0958 (SaX), Swindon 1027 (Sa), Reading 1047, London Paddington 1120 (ICS M-F, IC Sa)

The above are Monday-Friday, with minor timing variations for bank holidays and Saturdays.

On Sunday we have:

Swansea 1315, Llanelli 1331, Whitland 1414, Haverfordwest 1436, Milford Haven 1454 (IC)

Milford Haven 1511, Haverfordwest 1527, Whitland 1546, Carmarthen 1603-1610, Pembrey & Burry Port 1627, Llanelli 1633, Swansea 1650-1700, Neath 1711, Port Talbot 1718, Bridgend 1732, Cardiff 1753, Newport 1807, Bristol Parkway 1829, Reading 1928, Paddington 2040 (IC)

InterCity service is described as having "Light Refreshments and hot and cold drinks", whereas InterCity Shuttle has a "Frequent and regular service", Enhanced welcome and access at London Terminal Stations", and "At-seat service of food and hot and cold drinks in First Class and Standard accomodation"

 

[jamesr]

Going back even further, wasn't Milford Haven a sleeper destination for a least a few years? I'm away from my historic timetables to check!

 

[30907]

Going back even further, wasn't Milford Haven a sleeper destination for a least a few years? I'm away from my historic timetables to check!

For many decades, though I have a vague memory that Neyland preceded it..

 

[krus_aragon]

Going back even further, wasn't Milford Haven a sleeper destination for a least a few years? I'm away from my historic timetables to check!

My Google-fu gives:

 

[MichaelAMW]

Weekday timetable from 1977/78.

 

[Greenback]

I think the Milford Haven sleeper service was withdrawn when the Mk 3 sleeper coaches came in. The HST's to and from Milford Haven were supposed to be a replacement for the sleeper trains. Many thought they wouldn't last long, but they stayed for longer than I expected.

The early 1980's were a time of worry for young rail enthusiasts like me. I remember reding of closures like Clatyon West and Kilmacolm in the magazines of the time, and wondering if a new Beeching Axe was being sharpened. The Serpell Report came out in 1983 with an option to slash the network to almsot nothing. It seemed that there was a very real possibility that this would happen, but thankfully it didn't, and just a few years later we started ot see the beginnings of a rail revival.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think the Milford Haven sleeper service was withdrawn when the Mk 3 sleeper coaches came in. The HST's to and from Milford Haven were supposed to be a replacement for the sleeper trains. Many thought they wouldn't last long, but they stayed for longer than I expected.

The early 1980's were a time of worry for young rail enthusiasts like me. I remember reding of closures like Clatyon West and Kilmacolm in the magazines of the time, and wondering if a new Beeching Axe was being sharpened. The Serpell Report came out in 1983 with an option to slash the network to almsot nothing. It seemed that there was a very real possibility that this would happen, but thankfully it didn't, and just a few years later we started ot see the beginnings of a rail revival.

The Milford sleeper , as I recall , was just a single composite car - with a handful of compartment MK1's and parcel vans which made up the overnight West Wales - Swansea - Bristol TM - Paddington service , in those days the passenger list was pasted to the droplights , so you could read who was travelling - fairly full the night I caught it around 1977 (enroute for a gruelling day trip to France) - rather not amused by (a) the train returned to Llanelli for a diversion over the District Line (b)it picked up a drunken contingent kicked out of boozers and clubs at Cardiff , who fortunately alighted in the small hours at Newport. The kind and caring guard warned us about this , so we avoided them by riding with him till the melee had passed.

Costs were being cut all right - but the person in the name of John Davies saved and retained / improved West Wales not long after. He retimetabled the lot and improved the cost / revenue base hugely , saying that people should have been hung , drawn and quartered for letting things slide west of Swansea.

A memorable journey - the old 0055 Padd - West Wales paper train with a sleeper and a MK1 or two and a sea of paper vans was equally interesting , plenty to read and an interesting , non threatening payload of passengers.

 

[muddythefish]

The Milford sleeper , as I recall , was just a single composite car - with a handful of compartment MK1's and parcel vans which made up the overnight West Wales - Swansea - Bristol TM - Paddington service , in those days the passenger list was pasted to the droplights , so you could read who was travelling - fairly full the night I caught it around 1977 (enroute for a gruelling day trip to France) - rather not amused by (a) the train returned to Llanelli for a diversion over the District Line (b)it picked up a drunken contingent kicked out of boozers and clubs at Cardiff , who fortunately alighted in the small hours at Newport. The kind and caring guard warned us about this , so we avoided them by riding with him till the melee had passed.

Costs were being cut all right - but the person in the name of John Davies saved and retained / improved West Wales not long after. He retimetabled the lot and improved the cost / revenue base hugely , saying that people should have been hung , drawn and quartered for letting things slide west of Swansea.

A memorable journey - the old 0055 Padd - West Wales paper train with a sleeper and a MK1 or two and a sea of paper vans was equally interesting , plenty to read and an interesting , non threatening payload of passengers.

We had happy family holidays in Pembrokeshire on and off from 1963 - 77 - spent many happy hours in the signal box at Johnston.

Saw the down Milford sleeper quite a few times in the mornings - usually a Hymek and 3 coaches though not sure if they were all sleeping cars.

The branch was very busy in the early 1970s - the Herbrandston and Waterston oil traffic was non-stop and there was still mixed freight too - I remember seeing fish vans going down to Milford in the late mornings.

There was a mixed freight out of Milford at about 7pm and an additional 2 big mixed freights out of Haverfordwest yard in the early evening - unthinkable now.

Clarbeston Road was another great box - the friendly signalmen always let me in there too

 

[ChiefPlanner]

We had happy family holidays in Pembrokeshire on and off from 1963 - 77 - spent many happy hours in the signal box at Johnston.

Saw the down Milford sleeper quite a few times in the mornings - usually a Hymek and 3 coaches though not sure if they were all sleeping cars.

The branch was very busy in the early 1970s - the Herbrandston and Waterston oil traffic was non-stop and there was still mixed freight too - I remember seeing fish vans going down to Milford in the late mornings.

There was a mixed freight out of Milford at about 7pm and an additional 2 big mixed freights out of Haverfordwest yard in the early evening - unthinkable now.

Clarbeston Road was another great box - the friendly signalmen always let me in there too

Excellent - the Milford Fish traffic may have been the last on BR ! -- it was very lucrative as the traffic passed at passenger parcel rates (so say some ex local management I know) , and of course there was reasonable MOD traffic.

Interesting to note the retention of some sleeper services had "something to do" with MOD / Royal Navy etc etc passenger flows.

 

[33017]

I think the Milford Haven sleeper service was withdrawn when the Mk 3 sleeper coaches came in. The HST's to and from Milford Haven were supposed to be a replacement for the sleeper trains. Many thought they wouldn't last long, but they stayed for longer than I expected.

The early 1980's were a time of worry for young rail enthusiasts like me. I remember reding of closures like Clatyon West and Kilmacolm in the magazines of the time, and wondering if a new Beeching Axe was being sharpened. The Serpell Report came out in 1983 with an option to slash the network to almsot nothing. It seemed that there was a very real possibility that this would happen, but thankfully it didn't, and just a few years later we started ot see the beginnings of a rail revival.

The Milford sleeper finished at the end of the 1983 summer timetable. My father used it regularly and took me on it a few times, the last of which was the the early hours of 18/09/83. We had 47553 from Neath to Paddington via Tondu, Dr Day's and Newbury. The sleeping car was W2431. Was about load 4, as I recall.

The year before it was usually a 33 to Cardiff (briefly, a pair) but during the 1970's and early 80's almost anything could turn up for one leg or another with classes 31/33/35/37/45/46/47/50/52 all appearing. There was one point when it was booked four loco changes (at Carmarthen, Swansea, Cardiff & Bristol TM)!

 

[Greenback]

It seems incredible these days that there were sleepers from London to Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool!