London to Italy by train

[MarcVD]

Second vote for Luzern and the transport museum...

 

[Gadget88]

Would I expect to pay more to buy a ticket to rome on the day if so how much?

I was thinking I could go via Turin to Milan and use my second day in Italy to see if I fancy staying in Milan or going to Rome? That way I can see how tiring the travelling has been.

 

[Gadget88]

Right I’ve have it some thought and Switzerland to Italy seems ok so what if I do this?

Day 1: Edinburgh to Paris 6 hour

Day 2: Paris to Zurich 4 hour

Day 3: Zurich to Milan 3 hour day trip 9 hours on Milan

Day 4: Zurich to Paris 4 hour

Day 5: Paris to Edinburgh 6 hour

I work out I could have 9 hours in Milan is this enough time to see the cathedral maybe san siro? Day 4 I could head back early do enjoy some of Paris again.

Is Milan a good introduction to Italy? I could start off with this jounry limiting the travelling a bit each day before being more brave and doing something more ambitious by train like staying in Milan or Rome?

 

[Gadget88]

Also I would have a full day in Zurich so what could I do for the day?

 

[Gadget88]

I noted some of the hotels in Zurich have no air conditioning so this may be an issue if I went in summer?

 

[Gadget88]

I found hotels near Enge station not sure where this is and if I could some how catch a train here or at central station to milan?

 

[30907]

I always find it helps to check hotel locations on Googlemaps. Zurich Enge is the second station on the Gotthard route out to Milan, but AFAIK you'd have to catch a Regional train to Zug and pick up the EC there, or head in to Zurich HB by tram/on foot across the city centre.

It seems a shame to miss the trip through the Alps on the "old" Gotthard line, and I would suggest allowing extra time for this - you have allowed plenty for what you want to do in Milan. But make sure you do it on daylight!

I think you've given yourself two long half days in Zurich, assuming you don't want time for Paris? I don't know the city, but the trip up the Uetliberg is the classic rail tourist trip. The Arth-Rigi rack line is within reach, but probably a bit too much

Any big city in Central Switzerland can be stifling in summer. If that's an issue, you could do your overnights at somewhere like Brunnen or Fluelen on Lake Lucerne, if you can find somewhere in your price bracket. Alternatively, as others have suggested, you could stay at Lucerne both ways - this gives you the chance to visit the Transport Museum, and the lake is far more attractive than Zurich too.

 

[duesselmartin]

Just crossed into italy via Ventimiglia. Apart from the boring new tunnel it is a nice traditional border point. Most sidings seem now defunct. The loco shed which housed SNCF locos 20 years ago is now a ruin.

Where does freight cross from Italy to France?
Neither here nor at the Frejus tunnel have any sign of freight.

 

[Gadget88]

The air con is broke in many of the hotels I seen in Zurich so if I go February can I expect snow? Is it easy to find the Milan train in the main station in Zurich? Do tickets need validated?

I could have two full days in Zurich but my partner fancies going back to Paris early to enjoy Paris again I think. But will wait and see.

What can I do in Milan for 9 hours? Perhaps if I tick this trip off I will feel more able to tackle Paris to turin and onwards to Milan

 

[Gadget88]

Also is Zurich quite big? In goggle maps it looks like I could get lost easily

 

[duesselmartin]

No validation needed in Switzerland and trains are easy to find with principle stops shown on the departure bord. Many end in Milano Centrale anyway.
Zurich is rather big but the Main sights are close to each other.

Milano. Centrale station ist a sight in itself. The cathedrcat of course, close by the Vittorio Emanuel Gallery ( a roofed shopping street) . Take the underground to Duomo.
Just be aware of pic pockets

 

[Gadget88]

No validation needed in Switzerland and trains are easy to find with principle stops shown on the departure bord. Many end in Milano Centrale anyway.
Zurich is rather big but the Main sights are close to each other.

Milano. Centrale station ist a sight in itself. The cathedrcat of course, close by the Vittorio Emanuel Gallery ( a roofed shopping street) . Take the underground to Duomo.
Just be aware of pic pockets

That’s great would san siro be a waste of a day if I’m only there for the day?

What sights would I want to see in Zurich?

What about weather wise in February time? And what scenery can I see from Zurich to Milan and Paris to Zurich?

I was keen to see Switzerland anyway so is this the best route to take to limit daily travel time down?

 

[30907]

What about weather wise in February time? And what scenery can I see from Zurich to Milan and Paris to Zurich?

I was keen to see Switzerland anyway so is this the best route to take to limit daily travel time down?

Paris to Zurich is high speed rail as far as Mulhouse, from Basel to Zurich it gets more scenic. Zurich to Milan is classic lakes and mountains, especially if you take my previous advice re the historic route and only use the base tunnel one way, and you would be unlucky not to see plenty of snow at higher levels - Zurich and Lucerne much less predictable, and I'm not guaranteeing sun anywhere!
The best views are on the left going north, right going south is almost as good but there's an extra tunnel along Lake Lucerne.

As to alternative routes, apart from Lucerne you could choose Paris-Lausanne TGV through the Jura (limestone) mountains then EC along Lake Geneva and through the Simplon tunnel for one way, but I think you are hoping not to have your baggage with you every day....

 

[Gadget88]

I have found an alternative route to go right down to Lyon and catch the early train after 8am. My question is is there McDonald’s and other food outlets near Lyon Part-Dieu as I would arrive after 9am?

My preferred route is to go back via Zurich and have a quick 2 hour stop off before my next train to break down that 7 hour train journey. What can I do around Zurich station for two hours
And again is there much food places?

My plan would be

Day 1: Edinburgh to Lyon
Day 2: Lyon to Milan 5 hours
Day 3: Milan to Rome 3 hours
Day 4: Milan to Zurich 3 hour Zurich to paris 4 hour
Day 5: Paris to Edinburgh

My alternative is

Day 1: Edinburgh to Paris
Day 2: Paris to Zurich 4 hours
Day 3: Zurich to Milan 3 hours a day visit there had back
Day 4: Zurich to Paris 4 hours
Day 5: Paris to Edinburgh

I was favouring the last option but fancy Italy more and in terms of Switzerland I was planning a trip to Basel instead.

Which option would others here go for?

 

[Chris225]

Depends how much you want to visit Rome. After visiting by train earlier in the year I’d go for the second option. Milan is nice but not much to see other than Duomo cathedral. Saying that my experience of Naples has put me off Italy for a good while.

Many, Many food places in and around Zurich station. As for what to do just wander straight down Bhanoffstrauss towards the lake. Lots of expensive shops to look in and the lake is very pretty. Also if you like cars then your laughing. I saw better cars just walking about Zurich than the Paris motor show I was at the day before.

I’m just starting to plan next years holiday. So far I’m doing

Day 1: Edinburgh-London-Paris-Zurich
Day 2: Zurich-Innsbruck-Budapest
Day 3: Explore Budapest
Day 4: Budapest-Vienna-Munich
Day 5: Munich-Paris-Edinburgh(Flying)

My idea being following the old routes of the orient express. But not going further than Budapest as the trains get a bit slow and old after there.

 

[nickswift99]

I have found an alternative route to go right down to Lyon and catch the early train after 8am. My question is is there McDonald’s and other food outlets near Lyon Part-Dieu as I would arrive after 9am?

My preferred route is to go back via Zurich and have a quick 2 hour stop off before my next train to break down that 7 hour train journey. What can I do around Zurich station for two hours
And again is there much food places?

My plan would be

Day 1: Edinburgh to Lyon
Day 2: Lyon to Milan 5 hours
Day 3: Milan to Rome 3 hours
Day 4: Milan to Zurich 3 hour Zurich to paris 4 hour
Day 5: Paris to Edinburgh

My alternative is

Day 1: Edinburgh to Paris
Day 2: Paris to Zurich 4 hours
Day 3: Zurich to Milan 3 hours a day visit there had back
Day 4: Zurich to Paris 4 hours
Day 5: Paris to Edinburgh

I was favouring the last option but fancy Italy more and in terms of Switzerland I was planning a trip to Basel instead.

Which option would others here go for?

There’s a Subway and some independent coffee places at Lyon. They are in no way representative of the usually very high quality of food available in the city.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A day trip Milan-Rome and back would be too much for me.
It may just be me, but I find big Italian cities confusing and difficult to navigate compared to places in CH/AT/DE, or even France.
Nothing quite seems to work as expected, and the taxi-drivers are just waiting to pounce on the uncertain tourist who gives up on the public transport system.
All we really did in Rome in half a day was to use the hop on/off tour bus to see the main sites from the top deck.
Between Bologna and Florence it is mostly tunnel so you miss the Apennine scenery, though it's nice through Tuscany.
To get anywhere from Milano Centrale you will need tram/metro - watch out for people trying to "help" at the TVMs.
Milan was also the only city where they obviously overbooked and sent me round the corner to another place (just as good, luckily).
I've learnt to spend time in smaller Italian cities like Verona, Trieste and Syracusa rather than the mega-cities.
Of course, other people's experiences will be different.

 

[superalbs]

To get anywhere from Milano Centrale you will need tram/metro - watch out for people trying to "help" at the TVMs.

I had someone try and 'help' me there. I went to the ticket office instead, rather unsettling.

What exactly do they do?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I had someone try and 'help' me there. I went to the ticket office instead, rather unsettling.
What exactly do they do?

Well it's not easy to work out how to get English on the Milan Metro TVMs.
While you are thinking (in the ill-lit tunnel), one of the locals will spot you are English, helpfully offer to press all the right buttons and expect the change as a reward.
There were several lads milling around and they expect you to use their "services".
It looked like a regular scam to me.
In Naples they were in groups outside metro stations and were intimidating.
In Catania I couldn't shake off the taxi tout who worked the bus queues looking for lost tourists (not difficult when the departure times/routes are not listed).
Maybe I'm just naïve about these things, but it doesn't endear me to those places.

 

[Chris225]

Can't even trust the ticket booths either, On my recent trip to Naples when i went to the booth to buy a ticket to Sorrento the cost was 3 euros something and I Handed over a a 5 euro note and got the ticket, i then waited expecting change but the person wasn't for giving me any and ushered over this intimidating looking guy to move me along out the way.

Also in Naples while waiting for the bus to the airport that was late, the taxi touts were all over some young English twins who were waiting behind me, I just advised them against it and to just wait for the bus.

 

[axlecounter]

Well it's not easy to work out how to get English on the Milan Metro TVMs.
While you are thinking (in the ill-lit tunnel), one of the locals will spot you are English, helpfully offer to press all the right buttons and expect the change as a reward.
There were several lads milling around and they expect you to use their "services".
It looked like a regular scam to me.

How is that not easy? Language is the first choice to be made after touching the screen.

What I must say about the people there "trying to help" is that they actually help you in that they'll give you the right ticket based on your destination(s). Not a given in today's mad railway world
Personally I never had any problems whether I left them my change or not.

 

[Gadget88]

Just back from the trip I did Paris to Zurich and stayed over and went to Milan. What a great trip Lugano views were amazing enjoyed the long tunnel too. I kept the journey time down to no more than 4 hours per day other than Zurich to Milan which was 6 hours in total.

Going to have a rest but maybe over next six months or a year I fancy visiting again and going to Milan and Rome possibly Venice.

I am not keen on an extra hour going via Turin but may have to so my favoured option may be Edinburgh to Lyon in a day then Lyon to Milan followed by a return leg via Turin. I calculated that my trip I am just back from was 1,000 miles by the time I reached Milan.

 

[Gadget88]

Personally i'd go via Zurich, I do like Switzerland very much. I go a Daytrip to Geneva for the motor show every year and if i ever had a chance i'd move there without hesitation such a lovely city. Although you are correct it is quiet which is why i like it so much. And don't worry about English speaking too much I barely know any French and get by just fine.

My hotel in Paris is the citizenM at the Gare de Lyon so i'll be able to tell you about it soon.

How was that hotel? The Mecure at the station was very dissappointong small and very nosiey rooms

 

[Chris225]

The rooms were quite small as it is one of the newer pod type rooms but it was immaculately clean and didn’t hear a noise all night. The selection of tv was brilliant as well and all movies were free to watch.

Out of the 4 hotels I stayed at during the trip it was my favourite.

 

[Gadget88]

Update

The found the Courtyard hotel at the station for this year as I visit Basel and Lyon. Much better hotel.

I read about a new tunnel opening in 2020 which cuts journey times from Zurich from 3 hours 40 to 2 and a half hours. This will make a massive difference as I plan on doing Milan to Paris in a day via a change in Zurich. Last time I only went for a day visit. It will make reaching Rome from Milan more of a breeze. Sadly another ten years to wait for Paris to Milan in 4 hours.

 

[30907]

Update

The found the Courtyard hotel at the station for this year as I visit Basel and Lyon. Much better hotel.

I read about a new tunnel opening in 2020 which cuts journey times from Zurich from 3 hours 40 to 2 and a half hours. This will make a massive difference as I plan on doing Milan to Paris in a day via a change in Zurich. Last time I only went for a day visit. It will make reaching Rome from Milan more of a breeze. Sadly another ten years to wait for Paris to Milan in 4 hours.

I think there are a few more upgrades to complete before Zurich Milan is 2.5 hours - the Monte Ceneri tunnel you refer to only replaces a 55-minute journey...

 

[Gadget88]

I think there are a few more upgrades to complete before Zurich Milan is 2.5 hours - the Monte Ceneri tunnel you refer to only replaces a 55-minute journey...

Cool how long will it be before it’s 2 and a half hours? Can I expect to see much of a reduction come December?

 

[Gadget88]

http://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/trans-alpine-rail-tunnels/index.html

(CNN) — Thousands of feet under the Swiss Alps, a new high-speed, high-capacity railway is close to completion.
At its heart is the world's longest railway tunnel -- the 35-mile-long (or 57-kilometer) Gotthard Base Tunnel.

This article mentions 2 and a half hours

 

[Gadget88]

Journey times for international travelers between Zurich and Milan will be slashed to just two and a half hours, compared with four hours via the old Gotthard route, with passenger trains traveling at up to 125 miles per hour through the tunnels.

Link above

 

[30907]

Link above

Sorry, I underestimated the improvement: SBB are quoted as saying 2h45 from December 2020.
Obviously the major upgrade of Zurich - Zug - Arth-Goldau will be compete by then as well, which I hadnt realised, and perhaps something on the Italian side.