London to Windermere via Nottingham

[DynamicSpirit]

In a few weeks I'm expecting to travel from London (actually, Abbey Wood but that probably doesn't matter) to Windermere (with a bicycle), with the complication of wanting to stop off at Nottingham for a few days en route. Ideally that would be on the outward trip, though at a pinch if it makes a significant difference to fares, I might be able to do it on the return trip.

Can I go via Nottingham on a straight London-Windermere ticket? And can I break my journey there? If not, does anyone have any good suggestions for the cheapest way to do that, using flexible off-peak tickets and without making the journey massively longer than necessary?

Thanks!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

In a few weeks I'm expecting to travel from London (actually, Abbey Wood but that probably doesn't matter) to Windermere (with a bicycle), with the complication of wanting to stop off at Nottingham for a few days en route. Ideally that would be on the outward trip, though at a pinch if it makes a significant difference to fares, I might be able to do it on the return trip.

Can I go via Nottingham on a straight London-Windermere ticket? And can I break my journey there? If not, does anyone have any good suggestions for the cheapest way to do that, using flexible off-peak tickets and without making the journey massively longer than necessary?

Thanks!

The good news - via Nottingham (direct via MML or via Peterborough & ECML) and then via Skipton or via Preston is indeed one of the permitted routes between London and Windermere. See map combinations LN+AM+MX, MM+LX, PR+MX, PR+XP and PR+XW for routes via Nottingham. Also, as far as I can tell there are no worthwhile splits when going via Nottingham if you want to use flexible (walk-up) tickets only - though there may of course be various 'loophole' tickets available if you're that way inclined.

The bad news - there are only two through walk-up fares from London to Windermere - at non-discounted rates it's £109.10 for the Off-Peak Return or £364.00 for the Anytime Return. The Anytime Return is a joke price-wise, but unfortunately Off-Peak Returns are only valid for one day on the outbound portion generally. If you want to make your outbound journey over multiple days and don't want to fork out for an Anytime Return, you'll have to string together several different tickets at a higher cost (unless you can pin yourself down to specific trains).

The worse news - aside from the fact that you can't use the outbound portion of an Off-Peak Return beyond the first day - other than where it impractical to do so and you are recommencing travel having already started it - the restriction code for London-Windemere is 5F. This disallows break of journey on the outbound portion of the ticket. Not all TISes will inform you of this restriction, and if you are not informed of it at the point of sale then it cannot be retrospectively applied, however most TISes are not definite either way and simply refer you to customer services for questions on break of journey.

If you are 'caught' breaking your journey where you shouldn't have, you could be liable for the excess to the cheapest ticket that would have permitted you to do so - the Anytime Return in this case. Ouch.

To compound it all, services on the Windermere line have currently been suspended by Northern for at least the next few weeks, and this suspension may continue indefinitely until the driver training and timetable etc. situation improves. Services are currently being 'bustituted'.

In all, I wouldn't be looking to make this trip in the next few weeks either way, but if you have a good reason to make it then I would try to break your journey in Nottingham on the return leg if at all possible, since this would be entirely in keeping with the conditions of the Off-Peak Return, which allows unlimited break of journey over the return portion, which is itself valid for a month.

 

[100andthirty]

Out of interest, what is the situation if you have a bike and you find that part of the journey is on a rail replacement bus?

 

[robbeech]

Out of interest, what is the situation if you have a bike and you find that part of the journey is on a rail replacement bus?

Not good.
As a rule you cannot take a bike on an RRB, and the TOC are not obliged to find an alternative method to get your bike to the destination. I would have thought (though I’m not sure if the official line) that you’d be allowed to get a full refund without admin fee on the ticket should this be the case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you do want to travel off peak and break your journey both ways, one thing you could do is buy *two* Off Peak Returns in opposite directions and use the return portions only. This is about £100 cheaper than the Anytime.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If you do want to travel off peak and break your journey both ways, one thing you could do is buy *two* Off Peak Returns in opposite directions and use the return portions only. This is about £100 cheaper than the Anytime.

Lol! If I was going to break the journey both ways, then it would be a lot cheaper to just buy separate London-Nottingham (£64) and Nottingham-Windermere (£76.60) tickets. If only breaking my journey one way, that's not such a good option because (I'm assuming) that ticket combination would force me to travel via Nottingham both ways (is that correct?), which would be massively more inconvenient than just getting a Pendolino between London and Oxenholme.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The good news - via Nottingham (direct via MML or via Peterborough & ECML) and then via Skipton or via Preston is indeed one of the permitted routes between London and Windermere. See map combinations LN+AM+MX, MM+LX, PR+MX, PR+XP and PR+XW for routes via Nottingham. Also, as far as I can tell there are no worthwhile splits when going via Nottingham if you want to use flexible (walk-up) tickets only - though there may of course be various 'loophole' tickets available if you're that way inclined.

Thanks ForTheLoveOf. I'm afraid I don't understand what the map combinations mean. I'm I correct in thinking that 'via' Preston means that on a London-Windermere ticket, it's fine to take the Norwich-Liverpool train from Nottingham as far as either Manchester or Warrington, and change to a Northbound train at one of those places? (That's what seems to be the fastest way to get from Nottingham to Windermere).

The bad news - there are only two through walk-up fares from London to Windermere - at non-discounted rates it's £109.10 for the Off-Peak Return or £364.00 for the Anytime Return. The Anytime Return is a joke price-wise, but unfortunately Off-Peak Returns are only valid for one day on the outbound portion generally. If you want to make your outbound journey over multiple days and don't want to fork out for an Anytime Return, you'll have to string together several different tickets at a higher cost (unless you can pin yourself down to specific trains).

Ah. That's what I feared. So that means that unless I can figure out some other reasonably cheap ticket combination, then I really need to stop at Nottingham on the return leg - which isn't really what I wanted to do.

To compound it all, services on the Windermere line have currently been suspended by Northern for at least the next few weeks, and this suspension may continue indefinitely until the driver training and timetable etc. situation improves. Services are currently being 'bustituted'.

Yeah I'm hoping that will only last the couple of weeks they've initially planned it for. Though luckily, for me, Oxenholme-Windermere is reasonably cycle-able as a last resort.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks ForTheLoveOf. I'm afraid I don't understand what the map combinations mean. I'm I correct in thinking that 'via' Preston means that on a London-Windermere ticket, it's fine to take the Norwich-Liverpool train from Nottingham as far as either Manchester or Warrington, and change to a Northbound train at one of those places? (That's what seems to be the fastest way to get from Nottingham to Windermere).

Yes, what you have suggested is a permitted route and indeed is the suggested itinerary when I enter 'via Nottingham' into most journey planners. The map combinations refer to combinations of maps viewable here, which show the routes you can take. But to summarise it - you can do that.

Ah. That's what I feared. So that means that unless I can figure out some other reasonably cheap ticket combination, then I really need to stop at Nottingham on the return leg - which isn't really what I wanted to do.

Unfortunately, yes. Advance Purchase on the Day tickets are available up to 1 hour before departure on VTWC if you were looking to go straight to Windermere/Oxenholme on the way up, and are usually a fair amount cheaper than walk-up tickets. So if you can fix yourself down even a short time before departure you can save by getting an Advance up and then various other tickets to Nottingham and back.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask!